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How to live on $432 a month in America

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Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#181
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My smartphone plan is $45 (happens to be same company as article suggests, US Mobile) and supports 50GB of tethering which is plenty. This doesn't appreciably change the cost of living but yes, obviously you'd have that as an expense. Who cares? Yes, it would enable like half those work ideas. You could afford it. What's the problem. > licenses and stuff What? No, nobody selling tamales outside in the country (or pro…

"Just break the law, it'll be fine" Great financial advice happening on the orangesite. Really good stuff.

Ironically, I think this is a "blind squirrel finds a nut" situation.

When you're at the absolute bottom, you're not gonna make ends meet by playing by the rule and the enforcers generally leave you alone because you can't get blood from a stone. So for the people living on $400/mo running an unlicensed tamale stand or parting out cars or breeding pitbulls or whatever isn't as risky as it would be for someone making real money.

But yeah, the advice here is generally out of touch.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, leaving the "heat" part of the list just blank is pretty telling as far as how much thought went into this.

At 4 cents per 1kWh heating will not be an issue, even with regular resistive heater. It’s almost free electricity. You could run a 1.5 kW heater 24/7 for roughly 40 USD a month. Just make sure the space is well insulated and not too large - but we’re talking about basic living, so that should be easy.

It seems like you'd need more than 1.5kW of heat in upstate new york, even for a small place (which is more than half the size of my suburban home). Also, while I agree that $40 is cheap to me, it's also an additional 10% on their budget.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#183

>Though I and my wife do not presently live in Massena, we live nearby, and we’re doing exactly this — we do not have an automobile, nor do we want one. We use the rural county transit bus, which we have found to be extremely cheap and quite reliable; and it has certainly saved us thousands and thousands of dollars by liberating us from the onerous expense of keeping a car. This part has me screaming shenanigans. Unl…

That’s obviously not true, if you change what you “have” to go to. There are thousands of American towns that are about 10k population - large enough to have a Walmart and other stores, small enough to walk across in an hour or so.

While such towns may have walkable cores, often places like Walmart are a huge pain to walk to.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#184
post #169

> any American could live an earlier iteration of the American Dream If (and only if) you aren't socially different from the communities you'd be moving to. Being gay or trans, for instance, might mark you out as a target in a lot of the places where you could live this cheaply. Plenty of race, religions, or political beliefs that would make it untenable. It's hard to claim that any American can achieve this.

Maybe you have more direct experience with this than I do, but I'm not sure I agree. I don't follow the lifestyle the author describes, but I do live in an economically and culturally comparable town in Vermont that's much smaller than Massena. The town is full of gay and lesbian couples, and it really doesn't seem to be an issue. The few racial minorities seem to be well accepted. Religion is a surprisingly small fa…

I experienced something similar and would posit that small communities accommodate diversity more easily, because you get to know the people, it's no longer "the homosexuals" or "the immigrants" or "the jews", it's "John who works at the coffee shop ".

Clearly this breaks down at a certain size, and it may still suck for people on the minority side tho.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, this is the weirdest way the author could've written that sentence. He should've said either "one 10 hour shift per month will make 30% of what you need to live here" or even "one 10 hour shift per week will make more than what you need to live here."

It doesn't seem to be caused by his lifestyle as the posters above also cant divide by $7 per hour. Its 62 hours or 11 shifts. I think hé means one should do all kinds of small projects.

$17/hr is the rate

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#186
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of a budget for heating in an article that uses the term "American Siberia" is so hilariously out of touch that it makes the rest of the article farcical.

Apparently it's "free Amish wood" or "a little extra in electricity"... which, as someone who lives in a temperate area, is a stunningly low price to imagine for electric heat in somewhere cold.

It’s a 600 ft home with electricity at 0.04kWh. As someone who owns a 400 sq ft uninsulated cabin in MN, with rates closer to 4x that, I can tell you it’s about $100/month to heat it with electricity.

I guess, if the math holds, you would be paying around $50/month to heat it in the winter months.

E: changed kW/h to kWh per the nice commenter who suggested as much below.

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#187

> any American could live an earlier iteration of the American Dream If (and only if) you aren't socially different from the communities you'd be moving to. Being gay or trans, for instance, might mark you out as a target in a lot of the places where you could live this cheaply. Plenty of race, religions, or political beliefs that would make it untenable. It's hard to claim that any American can achieve this.

[deleted]

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#188
The author mentions they’re just about to have a baby, and it’s notable that they don’t talk about the quality of the schools. Even if they homeschooled, I imagine they want their kids to have some friends, and they didn’t talk about how that would work without a car. Once they get a car, they might get a little bit unlucky and live an hour away from their kid’s closest peer. I hope they get along!

Re: How to live on $432 a month in America

#190

I looked through those numbers, and immediately thought to myself - hope you don't need to see a doctor for anything serious, or go to a dentist for that mater. FWIW, I grew up in rural nowhere (population 150, nearest town 45 miles away) - and I honestly don't know how anyone can live out in the boonies without a car. Taking the bus that goes 3 times a day is one thing, needing to move stuff is another thing. I mean…

I will say, at this income level you're on Medicaid. It would be more than nothing but very basic, and if you're using government assistance than you aren't really "escaping" modernity, you're actually living off of the economic surplus of all the people working hard in the rat race. (Don't misinterpret me as saying that social safety nets are bad, I am all for them, but I'm just saying - if the author of this article gets cancer I bet they'll want to visit a hospital where doctors are working 12 hour shifts grinding out the era of "overabundance.")

But it is extremely important to point out that the American "rat race" cities subsidize areas like this. There would be no road in front of this house without those subsidies. These areas are net negative economic contributors that depend on federal and state funding to exist, including that bus transit that this person is relying on (not to mention the American factory workers who grind out their shifts in urban centers to make those buses).

The author claims to be living the life of great-grandparents, but it’s not like he’s a subsistence farmer or something. As a metaphor it’s kind of like claiming you’re a wild animal living out in the wilderness living a simple life of virtue when in reality this existence is more similar to a raccoon living out of the dumpster of modern society’s surplus.

Why bother building a self-sufficient community like the Amish where they build their own homes and grow their own food and build their own buggies, clothes, furniture, and breed their own horses when you can survive in a cheap depreciated house someone else built, use the library and transportation that other working people pay for, and the roads that were built by the workers who actually work some significant hours?

I am sure it works on some level but it doesn’t seem to me to be a very positive alternative to a lot of other lifestyles.

Apart from all that, there are so many flaws with this article.

The budget didn't include mortgage/housing cost, I guess it's just assuming you're paying cash? How does a person with this kind of lack of gainful employment come up with $29k?

Water is $0? Even well water requires some level of upkeep and potentially replacement and re-drilling.

Most rural towns in the US absolutely do not have this transit available. You'll need a working maintained car plus insurance almost everywhere that looks like this.

Internet, use library - again, with what car? Aren’t a lot of the methods available to make income dependent on internet access?

The heat budget is just blank which makes no sense, heat in upstate new york is not cheap as you need a lot of it.

Education for your kids? How is that going to look out there? Are they going to be trapped here? Will they even have the option to opt out of this lifestyle? How easy will it be to do homework at home with no internet? You’ll rely on a rural bus schedule and use the library during open hours only?

I might also point out that a lot of modern society lifestyles that aren’t so far on this side of extreme of frugality are really easy and comfortable lives. Not all of them, a lot of people live difficult modern lives, but at the same time the “most people” who left the farm to get a job in the city did so for a reason.

I guess you could say that the extremes of society can make for some interesting reading.

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