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Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

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Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#201
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Becoming self-taught? Currently I'm learning POSIX shell scripting and installing OpenBSD and FreeBSD in my local VMs on the weekends, and since AI is helping me, I'm able to gain 3 to 4 times more experience than I would otherwise have gained. All of those skills might come in handy in the future.

Almost all professional jobs require a college degree to even be considered though. I'm sure there are exceptions, but the general rule is clear.

Electricians/plumbers/welders/landscapers/cleaners etc are also professionals.

Unless we are using professional to mean some kind of socioeconomic class signifier.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> more rigorous degrees with higher likelihoods of stable pay (e.g. medical/engineering) this is the dumbest thing ever. first off, they already chased degrees that paid better -- they went STEM. secondly, things change a lot in 4 years. the 2020 college freshman is now getting screwed for choosing STEM right now, today. 4 years ago it was a good choice, 2 years ago it was shaky, and now it's a mess. medicine is also…

Medicine pays so well because it has a medieval guild-like structure which controls the numbers of who can enter the profession.

The barrier to entry for nursing/PA/NP pretty low.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you use the word "our", it's supposed to refer to US citizens. Once a person is a citizen, they are a part of this group. To want to denaturalize anyone means your quest is not rooted in a rational separation of who belongs and who doesn't. Maybe someone will want to denaturalize you and show you the door just the same, so how about that.

You'll have to take up your concerns with a lawyer. See 8 U.S. Code § 1451 - Revocation of naturalization.

None of those concerns typically apply with regard to international workers gaining citizenship. Practically all of them gain them lawfully, and with great difficulty too. For all intents and purposes, it is irrelevant to the matter at hand of employment of citizens. The point is the laws of revocation of naturalization alone will not get you or me a better job.

In contrast, just the simple act of eliminating non-PhD work visas could fix the situation, but politicians work for corporations, not for the people.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#204
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Becoming self-taught? Currently I'm learning POSIX shell scripting and installing OpenBSD and FreeBSD in my local VMs on the weekends, and since AI is helping me, I'm able to gain 3 to 4 times more experience than I would otherwise have gained. All of those skills might come in handy in the future.

Almost all professional jobs require a college degree to even be considered though. I'm sure there are exceptions, but the general rule is clear.

Isn't it a bit different in the field of software? Weren't most of the top senior devs actually self-taught?

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#205
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did that. Then those jobs still went away. So fuck them, right?

That’s why you choose lower tuition options so debt levels are manageable even with jobs that pay less.

You started by saying people shouldn't take on large amounts of debt for questionable return. Now you are saying they should take on medium amounts of debt for questionable return. All while ignoring the questionable return part.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll have to take up your concerns with a lawyer. See 8 U.S. Code § 1451 - Revocation of naturalization.

None of those concerns typically apply with regard to international workers gaining citizenship. Practically all of them gain them lawfully, and with great difficulty too. For all intents and purposes, it is irrelevant to the matter at hand of employment of citizens. The point is the laws of revocation of naturalization alone will not get you or me a better job. In contrast, just the simple act of eliminating non-PhD…

I don't disagree with that. Though some did lie on their resumes to get jobs to attain the visas, AI could be used to flag unworthy recent citizens that committed fraud from overseas to attain their citizenship. My wife immigrated without committing fraud and is even more New Right than I am, so there's that. She wants this country preserved, and improved. Not overwhelmed and ultimately degraded. People make a place, and changing those people will change the place. It's how the world works.

I would also be willing to accept alternatives, such as the creation of a new Protected Class. Settler Status, which would be granted to all children from a direct paternal line going back to the American Revolution or before for the descendants of native Americans who at that time were from Europe, and did the actual sacrifice of pioneering the wild and settled the land. If you believe new immigrants experienced hardship, try Pennsylvania in 1750. Today an immigrant that faces "hardship" as you put it, is soft as a feather. Just taking advantage of this country without truly contributing. Again, Google might be happy but my concern is not Google Inc. If those with Settler Status were granted permanent job preference over non-Settler Status individuals, that would rectify the injustice and abuse of our legal immigration system, and the blind eye towards illegal immigration.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medicine pays so well because it has a medieval guild-like structure which controls the numbers of who can enter the profession.

The barrier to entry for nursing/PA/NP pretty low.

No it isn't. PA is way more work than a NP too, and this varies a ton by location. You're just talking out of your ass.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#208
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never claimed it was exponential. Closer to linear. Instead of making things up you could just look at the data. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0254477200A

Huh, somehow disagreeing with me has softened your claim of "infinity". Yes it still goes up but you think that goes on forever? I just don't see it, more and more tech appears as complexity introduced for its own sake not for any sort of service to the end user. Why is that? Building moats around companies, building moats around your own job, none of that serves the end user. Eventually someone comes along to eat yo…

There is effectively an infinite amount of software that people would like to have if it was free, thus infinite demand. This is fundamentally different from physical commodities: pretty much everyone wants some wheat, but there are physical limits to how much wheat we can consume which ultimately constrains demand.

Lowering the cost of software development just means that more software will be developed. Despite your unhinged little rant there is zero evidence that the number of employed software developers will decline over the long term. Numbers fluctuate from year to year but you haven't provided any evidence for a change in the historical patterns.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of those concerns typically apply with regard to international workers gaining citizenship. Practically all of them gain them lawfully, and with great difficulty too. For all intents and purposes, it is irrelevant to the matter at hand of employment of citizens. The point is the laws of revocation of naturalization alone will not get you or me a better job. In contrast, just the simple act of eliminating non-PhD…

I don't disagree with that. Though some did lie on their resumes to get jobs to attain the visas, AI could be used to flag unworthy recent citizens that committed fraud from overseas to attain their citizenship. My wife immigrated without committing fraud and is even more New Right than I am, so there's that. She wants this country preserved, and improved. Not overwhelmed and ultimately degraded. People make a place,…

The way they usually get a job is by first getting higher education in the US, so lying on the resume of any experience abroad doesn't really factor in. The job is mainly on the basis of the domestic education, not the foreign experience. Foreign work experience alone doesn't carry much if any weight for getting employment in the US.

The US is supposed to be a free country without any protected class either way. In the same way that I wouldn't support a protected class for descendants of slavery, I wouldn't for any settlers either.

The hardship faced by immigrants now have to do with with the stability of their visa, which is something that settlers never had to put up with. It is not a joke to be chronically stressed by whether one is at risk of losing one's legal status, also waiting for years for their paperwork to process. These are stresses that people like you and I never experienced first-hand.

I believe in merit-based employment and in training of citizens, without favoritism of any kind. As for work visas, I have already noted that they should be limited to those with a PhD (except for farm labor), and this will eliminate much of job-related concerns that people like you and I might have. Taking extremist ring-wing positions is not only unnecessary, but it opens the door down the road to someone eventually classifying you as not being sufficiently righteous.

Note also that one benefit that citizens already have over visa workers is that citizens have more possibilities for entrepreneurial activities without being encumbered by work restrictions.

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