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Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

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Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#191
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The demand for software is effectively infinite Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

There's nothing extraordinary about my claims. It's a simple extrapolation of historical trends going back 70+ years.

You are describing an exponential trend which famously do not exist in nature.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is why one shouldn’t take on large amounts of debt for questionable return.

What should they do then?

Becoming self-taught? Currently I'm learning POSIX shell scripting and installing OpenBSD and FreeBSD in my local VMs on the weekends, and since AI is helping me, I'm able to gain 3 to 4 times more experience than I would otherwise have gained.

All of those skills might come in handy in the future.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#193
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing extraordinary about my claims. It's a simple extrapolation of historical trends going back 70+ years.

You are describing an exponential trend which famously do not exist in nature.

I never claimed it was exponential. Closer to linear. Instead of making things up you could just look at the data.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0254477200A

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#194
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point me towards some stats for these please? Are you looking at consultancy type companies or subsidiaries that hire locally?

Here are some data points specific on IT. Back from 2023 until more recently, although as I said there is an uptick for 2025. For general statistics I like: https://tradingeconomics.com/ "India's outsourcing giants cut hiring; disheartening for economy, students" - https://www.reuters.com/world/india/indias-outsourcing-giant... "India's IT services companies to report subdued growth during 4QFY25" https://economictim…

This was above and beyond, thank you.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#195
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are describing an exponential trend which famously do not exist in nature.

I never claimed it was exponential. Closer to linear. Instead of making things up you could just look at the data. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0254477200A

Huh, somehow disagreeing with me has softened your claim of "infinity". Yes it still goes up but you think that goes on forever? I just don't see it, more and more tech appears as complexity introduced for its own sake not for any sort of service to the end user. Why is that? Building moats around companies, building moats around your own job, none of that serves the end user. Eventually someone comes along to eat your ossified asses lunch. Eventually people check out from the digital world whether through sheer genetics or finally waking up to the blight.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#196
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>While mean wages metrics look great, the cost savings are an illusion because we spend twice as much time communicating and tacking back and forth to the final answer across timezones. compensation consultants dont care about that, they care about mean wage metrics 100% this. What you save in dollars is spent in time. Not just more documentation requirements, not just more meetings, not just changing your schedule t…

> What you save in dollars is spent in time. If you're on salary, that costs nothing to the business, so they don't care until it starts to impact them...

It absolutely does cost the business. Your salary is a generally fixed rate, and the time you spend also tends to be fixed.

It’s a zero sum game with diminishing returns.

The more time you spend on nonsense, the less time you spend doing useful things and the more time the company is paying for nonsense.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#197
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would describe a poor office environment as an open one. Cubicles are much better, and offices a little better than that. These are not just unproductive environments, they're unpleasant. Having to be "on" for 8 hours a day because you don't even get a vague idea of privacy is exhausting.

Have you ever worked in a factory or restaurant or construction job site? I understand that some office environments aren't great for knowledge work but complaints about poor working conditions are a bit overblown.

Why are you gatekeeping what constitutes poor working conditions?

There are people all over the technology sector that suffer from various issues that make the “modern” office an absolutely unproductive, overwhelming shitshow.

You might also be frustrated if you’re asked to meet unreasonable goals in an environment where you can’t get anything done, at a company that doesn’t give you any options or agency over your work space.

It’s not the workplace suffering olympics. We don’t need to figure out whose cornering the market on bad working conditions to acknowledge that that issue spans industries.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#198
post #186
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that hard to believe. Some of the mechanical engineers that I know do much of their work out on factory floors that are constantly noisier than any office. And I guarantee that what they're doing is at least as complex and intellectually challenging as anything you've ever done. I'm all for improved working conditions but some software developers are entirely too precious . What we do isn't special.

You sound exactly like a manager that would put everyone into a open space and then could not understand why the productivity goes down like a rock. Yeah, people told you and you chose to ignore them.

A lot of people substitute their own experiences and reality for that of the people they interact with.

“This coffee isn’t hot to me, so it can’t be hot to you.”

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#199
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What should they do then?

Becoming self-taught? Currently I'm learning POSIX shell scripting and installing OpenBSD and FreeBSD in my local VMs on the weekends, and since AI is helping me, I'm able to gain 3 to 4 times more experience than I would otherwise have gained. All of those skills might come in handy in the future.

Almost all professional jobs require a college degree to even be considered though.

I'm sure there are exceptions, but the general rule is clear.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government funded schools with lower tuition (possibly even community college), more rigorous degrees with higher likelihoods of stable pay (e.g. medical/engineering), trade schools/apprenticeships.

> more rigorous degrees with higher likelihoods of stable pay (e.g. medical/engineering) this is the dumbest thing ever. first off, they already chased degrees that paid better -- they went STEM. secondly, things change a lot in 4 years. the 2020 college freshman is now getting screwed for choosing STEM right now, today. 4 years ago it was a good choice, 2 years ago it was shaky, and now it's a mess. medicine is also…

Medicine pays so well because it has a medieval guild-like structure which controls the numbers of who can enter the profession.
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