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Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

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Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#141

Post by aaronbaugher »

entuno wrote: post #136
robnado wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software Engineers need to get involved politically and demand regulations that systems that are critical for national security be developed by residents of the US on US soil by actual people with the right qualifications.

Qualifications are an interesting one, because they seem to be something that gets very little regard the development space. Other areas like IT security or systems/network administration have tons of different qualifications/certifications that you can take, aligned to specific roles and career paths. Whether they're actually any good is another question - but at least there is some kind of structure there. And ther…

The ones I'm familiar with are mainly administered by corporate platforms like Salesforce, and appear to be mainly a revenue stream for them.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#142

Post by red-iron-pine »

corp8drone8sf wrote: post #30
alephnerd wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people are are told to hire h1 only -- not explicitly -- but implicitly I've funded and worked at a number of companies in the Enterprise SaaS space, and that's bull. I'm not saving any costs with a Visa sponsored employee. At that point I may as well fully offshore to a GCC.

))) Yeah that's bull. I'm not saving any costs with a Visa sponsored employee. It often isnt about saving money, it is about having fragile immigrant workers on a leash that you can control with the constant threat of layoff--->deportation

> It often isnt about saving money, it is about having fragile immigrant workers on a leash that you can control with the constant threat of layoff--->deportation

and also the carrot of actual sponsorship. two paths to motivation.

and some will get made into full-timers -- I've seen it -- but it just centralizes control

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#143

Post by memcg »

butterlettuce wrote: post #68

It would be nice if the President signed an executive order that tariffs companies 1000% for off shoring tech work. These folks are stealing our jerbs.

"As Trump pursues mass deportation, his businesses again seek foreign workers" https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/cre...

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#144

Post by ty6853 »

palmotea wrote: post #134
spacemadness wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to understand lots of people on HN want to be one of those people on top eventually so they will bend over backwards to apologize for the executive class until they supposedly get there.

> You have to understand lots of people on HN want to be one of those people on top eventually so they will bend over backwards to apologize for the executive class until they supposedly get there. Oh, I totally understand that. HN is full of workers LARPing as tycoons; advocating for policies, attitudes, and ideology that are most likely going to end up being harmful to their own interests.

There are also a lot of people totally oblivious to the local minima locations of the working class life. Like the fact that a young, elderly, or childless person may be able to realize the benefits of revolution for either themselves or at least their unborn or adult children, a very large segment of middle age society has young children who paradoxically would be better off from the revolution but may be more likely to die in the process than others due to the fact they cannot survive the thin margins of survival that the others can survive on during a lean revolutionary time.

Given that born young children can die but unborn children cannot, and that adult children are more resilient, the middle age worker have always been some of the most resistant to revolution, but not because they are bootlickers.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#145

Post by BuckRogers »

hedora wrote: post #111
BuckRogers wrote: post #80

The answer to this is easy. Rewind time and put a 200K minimum salary on visa talent, and ban products sold here to utilize overseas employees. Sell it here, you build it here. Then you have all the jobs you need and more. To fix it today, you do the same thing. But you'd have to also cancel all the visas, and invalidate citizenship that was founded on fraud. Not much more to this story, if your concern is having job…

You’re describing current policy. It’s crashing the economy, as predicted by anyone that has read an introductory economics textbook.

Your definition of "the economy" must be how Google shareholders feel. Which doesn't concern me.

Individuals in the USA have been experiencing the pain alone for a few decades now. They've felt a very real crash for quite a while now. For me, how a worker born in the US is doing is the economy. That's the New Right, while your views represent the Left in this country.

Any pain Google feels in the shift to tariffs and jobs for Americans rather than the rest of the world isn't optional. They're welcome to shutdown US operations if it's undoable.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#146

Post by jauntywundrkind »

The industry feels so much more mature, in a bad way. We had such an exciting set of decades of making new software, new frameworks, finding out new ways to do things. Devs would be working on all kinds of exciting interesting personal matters. It was frontiers work, expanding possibility.

Everything feels so set now. Ever larger industry dominating ever more, with large scale software using established frameworks and technologies. Less vibrant scene of new and mid-life companies, still with exciting things brewing.

I struggle to elaborate why I feel it, but the lack of vibrancy, the lack of spark within the industry feels like it would lead so directly to these conditions of there being less entry-level jobs.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#147

Post by bradlys »

hellisothers wrote: post #121
franktankbank wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Backbiting, nepotism, self-dealing.

This is every professional job, my friends outside of tech have the same complaints.

The difference is that tech acts like it doesn’t have this issue. Other industries openly acknowledge they practice this and so expectations are set accordingly.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#148

Post by bryanlarsen »

entuno wrote: post #108
erehweb wrote: post #12

There are a number of industries where you may need experience to become more productive than AI, but nobody wants to hire you when AI is more productive in the first couple of years. Is there a good equilibrium for this, or does it end up with each company saying "We won't hire the juniors, just the experienced people" and then finding there aren't enough experienced people around?

This used to be addressed by the fact that people were loyal to companies - so it was in the company's interest to spend years training them up investing in them, with the knowledge that they might get decades of productive work out of them afterwards. One of my grandparents joined a company as an apprentice as 16, got trained by them, and then worked there for 40 years until retirement. But nowadys with the culture…

> then worked there for 40 years until retirement.

And what are the odds that any given company is even going to be around for 40 years these days?

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#149

Post by keeda »

corp8drone8sf wrote: post #17

Commenting anon, because i'm very concerned about how we are leaving the industry for our children, and how little executives care about the future. 1. anything we used to give to entry-level we now give to offshore workers, typically in Asia. While mean wages metrics look great, the cost savings are an illusion because we spend twice as much time communicating and tacking back and forth to the final answer across ti…

It's not even H1Bs, all of Big Tech is shifting jobs in bulk to their offshore development centers. It may not necessarily be overt layoffs and increased hiring there, but simply through un-backfilled attrition in the US while maintaining headcount overseas. As a sibling comment mentions, this is simply because that is even cheaper than hiring a H1B, and probably has fewer strings attached.

The trick is that they increasingly outsource not just individual projects, but entire business or technical domains. This significantly reduces the communication and collaboration overhead, as each project does not need to be babysat. They typically have trusted, effective, high-agency leadership (often senior folks who have relocated back to their home country) that take broad strategic direction and execute on it locally.

Of course, there is still a lot of cross time-zone collaboration due to technical dependencies across geos, but that is limited due to a strong push to make all infrastructure "self-serve" (microservices yay!)

I think the shift started spiking shortly after the pandemic when companies realized fully remote work can work well, even across timezones. I am not sure what data the execs saw, but they all seemed to decide on this strategy at the same time.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#150

Post by eyesofgod »

BuckRogers wrote: post #145
hedora wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re describing current policy. It’s crashing the economy, as predicted by anyone that has read an introductory economics textbook.

Your definition of "the economy" must be how Google shareholders feel. Which doesn't concern me. Individuals in the USA have been experiencing the pain alone for a few decades now. They've felt a very real crash for quite a while now. For me, how a worker born in the US is doing is the economy. That's the New Right, while your views represent the Left in this country. Any pain Google feels in the shift to tariffs and…

> For me, how a worker born in the US is doing is "the economy". That's the New Right, while your views represent the Left in this country.

Great, now drop the African deriding American workers and signing praise of Pajeet River-shitter and I'll beleive you.

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