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Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

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Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#341

Post by PKop »

surgical_fire wrote: post #109
diggan wrote: post #5

Interesting that every comment has "Help improve Copilot by leaving feedback using the or buttons" suffix, yet none of the comments received any feedback, either positive or negative. > This seems like it's fixing the symptom rather than the underlying issue? This is also my experience when you haven't setup a proper system prompt to address this for everything an LLM does. Funniest PRs are the ones that "resolves" t…

> I can't imagine how the people who have to deal with this are feeling. It's like you have a junior developer except they don't even read what you're telling them, and have 0 agency to understand what they're actually doing. That comparison is awful. I work with quite a few Junior developers and they can be competent. Certainly don't make the silly mistakes that LLMs do, don't need nearly as much handholding, and te…

Did you miss the "except" in his sentence? He was making the point this is worse than junior devs for all reasons listed.

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#342

Post by PKop »

svick wrote: post #183
bramhaag wrote: post #58

Seeing Microsoft employees argue with an LLM for hours instead of actually just fixing the problem must be a very encouraging sight for businesses that have built their products on top of .NET.

You don't want them to experiment with new tools? The main difference now is that the experiment is public.

Nah I'd prefer they focus on writing code themselves to improve .NET not babysitting a spam-machine

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#343

Post by Flamentono2 »

danso wrote: post #187
Flamentono2 wrote: post #122

[flagged]

This isn’t something happening in a vacuum. The people mocking this are people who are cynical about Microsoft forcing AI into the OS, and its marketing teams overhyping Copilot as a replacement for human dev

How is that dismantling my argument or relating to the point i made?

Just because some people on reddit 'laugh' at these discussions, in one of the PRs a contributor/maintainer actually said that they enabled it on purpose, are not forced and are happy to test it out.

And someone somewhere has and want to test stuff. Whats the issue? Test it out, play around with it, keep it or disable it.

And i think .net as a repository is a very good example. The people on github copilot side are probably very happy about this experiement. For me its also great, it seems like github copilot is still struggling a bit.

And copilot is called copilot because they do not advertice it as replacement.

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#344

Post by codyvoda »

nottorp wrote: post #336
codyvoda wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and you think this beta system that launched like 2 days ago can’t achieve that? it also opens the PR as its working session. there are a lot of dials, and a lot of redditor-ass opinions from people who don’t use or understand the tech

what i see is a human telling the "AI" that the code does not compile what use is a bot if it can't do at least this simple step?

it can do this step. once again, this launched 2 days ago and people are using it for the first time

if you have used it for more than a few hours (or literally just read the docs) and aren’t stupid, you know this is easily solved

you’re giving into mob mentality

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#345

Post by throwup238 »

diggan wrote: post #5

Interesting that every comment has "Help improve Copilot by leaving feedback using the or buttons" suffix, yet none of the comments received any feedback, either positive or negative. > This seems like it's fixing the symptom rather than the underlying issue? This is also my experience when you haven't setup a proper system prompt to address this for everything an LLM does. Funniest PRs are the ones that "resolves" t…

> Interesting that every comment has "Help improve Copilot by leaving feedback using the or buttons" suffix, yet none of the comments received any feedback, either positive or negative.

The feedback buttons open a feedback form modal, they don’t reflect the number of feedback given like the emoji button. If you leave feedback, it will reflect your thumbs up/down (hiding the other button), it doesn’t say anything about whether anyone else has left feedback (I’ve tried it on my own repos).

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#346

Post by diggan »

ecocentrik wrote: post #276
salawat wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My issue stems from the attitudes of the people we're doing it for. I started out doing it for humanity. To bring the bicycle for the mind to everyone. Then one day I woke up and realized the ones paying me were also the ones using it to run over or do circles around everyone else not equipped with a bicycle yet; and were colluding to make crippled bicycles that'd never liberate the masses as much as they themselves…

It's hard to find anything wrong with your conclusions except that you're leaving out the part where they're trying to automate our contributions to devalue our skills. I'm surprised there isn't a movement to halt the use of AI for certain tasks in software development on the same level as the active resistance from doctors against socialized medicine in the US. These expensive toys will inevitably introduce catastro…

> These expensive toys will inevitably introduce catastrophic level bugs and security vulnerabilities into critical infrastructure software. Right now, most of Microsoft's product offerings, like GitHub and Office, are critical infrastructure software.

So nothing new? Just this/last month, it seems like the multi-select "open/close" button in the GitHub PR UI was just straight up broken. No one seemed to have noticed until I opened a bug report, and it continued being broken for weeks before they finally fixed it. Not the first time I encounter this on Microsoft properties, they seem to constantly push out broken shit, and no one seem to even notice until some sad user (like me) happens to stumble across it.

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#349

Post by static_void »

fabian2k wrote: post #103
xnorswap wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Allegedly it's pretty terrible at C# In my experience, LLMs in general are really, really bad at C# / .NET , and it worries me as a .NET developer. With increased LLM usage, I think development in general is going to undergo a "great convergence". There's a positive(1) feedback loop where LLM's are better at Blub, so people use them to write more Blub. With more Blub out there, LLMs get better at Blub. The language…

My impression is also that they are worse at C# than some other languages. In autocomplete mode in particular it is very easy to cause the AI tools to write terrible async code. If you start some autocomplete but didn't put an await in front, it will always do something stupid as it can't add the await itself at that position. But also in other cases I've seen Copilot write just terrible async code.

LLMs are terrible at writing hip-hop because they can only move forward.

Hip-hop is just natural language with extra constraints like rhythm and rhyme. It requires the ability to edit.

Similarly, types and PL syntax have more constraints than English.

Until transformers can move backward and change what they've already autocompleted, the problem you've identified will continue.

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#350

Post by Dlanv »

rsynnott wrote: post #41

Beyond every other absurdity here, well, maybe Microsoft is different, but I would never assign a PR that was _failing CI_ to somebody. That that's happening feels like an admission that the thing doesn't _really_ work at all; if it worked even slightly, it would at least only assign passing PRs, but presumably it's bad enough that if they put in that requirement there would be no PRs.

They said in the comments that currently the firewall is blocking it from checking tests for passing, and they need to fix that.

Otherwise it would check the tests are passing.

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