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Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

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Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#171

Post by cyanydeez »

mjburgess wrote: post #88
diggan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's the plan? Call me old school, but I find the workflow of "divide and conquer" to be as helpful when working with LLMs, as without them. Although what is needed to be considered a "large scale task" varies by LLMs and implementation. Some models/implementations (seemingly Copilot) struggles with even the smallest change, while others breeze through them. Lots of trial and error is needed to find that line for…

The relevant scale is the number of hard constraints on the solution code, not the size of task as measured by "hours it would take the median programmer to write". So eg., one line of code which needed to handle dozens of hard-constraints on the system (eg., using a specific class, method, with a specific device, specific memory management, etc.) will very rarely be output correctly by an LLM. Likewise "blank-page,…

Keep in mind that the model of using LLM assumes the underlying dataset converges to production ready code. Thats never been proven, cause we know they scraped sourcs code without attribution.

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#172

Post by marmakoide »

eterevsky wrote: post #18
margorczynski wrote: post #8

With how stochastic the process is it makes it basically unusable for any large scale task. What's the plan? To roll the dice until the answer pops up? That would be maybe viable if there was a way to automatically evaluate it 100% but with a human in the loop required it becomes untenable.

The plan is to improve AI agents from their current ~intern level to a level of a good engineer.

The plan went from the AI being a force multiplier, to a resource hungry beast that have to be fed in the hope it's good enough to justify its hunger.

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#173

Post by cyanydeez »

eterevsky wrote: post #18
margorczynski wrote: post #8

With how stochastic the process is it makes it basically unusable for any large scale task. What's the plan? To roll the dice until the answer pops up? That would be maybe viable if there was a way to automatically evaluate it 100% but with a human in the loop required it becomes untenable.

The plan is to improve AI agents from their current ~intern level to a level of a good engineer.

I plan to be a billionaire

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#174

Post by Quarrel »

pm215 wrote: post #116
Crosseye_Jack wrote: post #23

I do love one bot asking another bot to sign a CLA! - https://github.com/dotnet/runtime/pull/115732#issuecomment-2...

That's funny, but also interesting that it didn't "sign" it. I would naively have expected that being handed a clear instruction like "reply with the following information" would strongly bias the LLM to reply as requested. I wonder if they've special cased that kind of thing in the prompt; or perhaps my intuition is just wrong here?

AI can't, as I understand it, have copyright over anything they do.

Nor can it be an entity to sign anything.

I assume the "not-copyrightable" issue, doesn't in anyway interfere with the rights trying to be protected by the CLA, but IANAL ..

I assume they've explicitly told it not to sign things (perhaps, because they don't want a sniff of their bot agreeing to things on behalf of MSFT).

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#175

Post by ozim »

bramhaag wrote: post #58

Seeing Microsoft employees argue with an LLM for hours instead of actually just fixing the problem must be a very encouraging sight for businesses that have built their products on top of .NET.

That is why they just fired 7k people so they don’t argue with LLM but let it do the work /s

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#176

Post by cyanydeez »

infecto wrote: post #123
ethanol-brain wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it probably depends on what you are doing. Outside of layers on top of these things (tooling), I personally haven't seen much progress.

What a time we live in. I guess it depends how pessimistic you are.

[flagged]

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#177

Post by TuringNYC »

jsheard wrote: post #61
90s_dev wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well?? Did it sign it???

Not sure if a chatbot can legally sign a contract, we'd better ask ChatGPT for a second opinion.

There is some unfortunate history here, though not a perfect analog: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_foreclosure...

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#178

Post by ipsi »

diggan wrote: post #107
simonw wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because OTP is trivially phishable: setup a fake login form that asks the user for their username and password, then forwards those on to the real system and triggers the OTP request, then requests THAT of the user and forwards their response. Passkeys fix that.

Except if you use a proper password manager that prevents you from using the autofill on domains/pages others than the hardcoded ones. In my case, it would immediately trigger my "sus filter" if the automatic prompt doesn't show up and I would have to manually find the entry.

And yet that's not enough, even when someone very definitely knows better: https://www.troyhunt.com/a-sneaky-phish-just-grabbed-my-mail...

Turns out that under certain conditions, such as severe exhaustion, that "sus filter" just... doesn't turn on quickly enough. The aim of passkeys is to ensure that it _cannot_ happen, no matter how exhausted/stressed/etc someone is. I'm not familiar enough with passkeys to pass judgement on them, but I do think there's a real problem they're trying to solve.

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#179

Post by derektank »

owebmaster wrote: post #78
infecto wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I look back over the past 2-3 years and am pretty amazed with how quick change and progress have been made. The promises are indeed large but the speed of progress has been fast. Not defending the promise but “taking a very long time” does not seem to be an accurate representation.

> The promises are indeed large but the speed of progress has been fast And at the same time, absurdly slow? ChatGPT is almost 3 years old and pretty much AI has still no positive economic impact.

OpenAI alone is on track to generate as much revenue as Asus or US Steel this year ($10-$15 billion). I don't know how you can say AI has had no positive economic impact.

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#180

Post by sweman »

yubblegum wrote: post #142
diggan wrote: post #5

Interesting that every comment has "Help improve Copilot by leaving feedback using the or buttons" suffix, yet none of the comments received any feedback, either positive or negative. > This seems like it's fixing the symptom rather than the underlying issue? This is also my experience when you haven't setup a proper system prompt to address this for everything an LLM does. Funniest PRs are the ones that "resolves" t…

This field (SE - when I started out back in late 80s) was enjoyable. Now it has become toxic, from the interview process, to imitating "big tech" songs and dances by small fry companies, and now this. Is there any joy left in being a professional software developer?

[flagged]
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