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Why does the U.S. always run a trade deficit?

libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org

511–520 of 814 posts

Re: Why does the U.S. always run a trade deficit?

#511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its never competency and focus. Individual influence averages out, its the system that creates the result at scale. To some extent higher per-student fees are expected in certain areas, most countries with heavily funded education aren't facing the same issues of rural population density. There's a lot of overhead costs to run so many schools. Then state policies and regulatory capture is the other side of course, al…

The system can’t do anything if academics and discipline aren’t instilled at home.

The 1800s called and they want their moral standards back.

Re: Why does the U.S. always run a trade deficit?

#512
post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What other system of value are you using here? Bottle caps? Nostalgia? While the dollar remains the global reserve currency, this is just a wild theory of trade. If the $450 of value was so easy to extract, why wouldn't China simply assemble it in their own country and take the whole pie? (they clearly already do this everywhere they can)

China's GDP (PPP) is already ~22% higher than the USA's [1]. Arguably, isn't this a better measure of value? PPP measures the real value to the citizens in a nation, and more closely measures actual economic activity. Say a bottle of wine costs $20 in the USA, and in total one bottle is produced and sold for a total of $20 GDP. France makes 10 bottles at $2 each, for a similar GDP of $20. It's cool that the USA manag…

> China's GDP (PPP) is already ~22% higher than the USA's [1]. Arguably, isn't this a better measure of value? PPP measures the real value to the citizens in a nation, and more closely measures actual economic activity.

Only if the only things you purchase are exclusively domestic. Turns out, the vast majority of Chinese citizens with any means are interested in foreign products (like most people in the world).

Re: Why does the U.S. always run a trade deficit?

#513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These all seem like side effects of the global reserve currency status. You can't balance the budget until that is given up. Giving up that status would be very painful, so given the choice of pain now or pain later, the current situation seems reasonable to me.

Maybe I'm missing something, but the budget deficit and trade deficit are two separate issues. We can have a budget surplus (as we had under the Clinton administration) while still having a trade deficit.

They are separate but closely connected. Something has to cross the border in the opposite direction. Could be corporate stocks or bonds, could be government bonds.

You can see export of government bonds as the last line of defense where the economy failed to produce enough of other instruments to cover the imbalance.

Re: Why does the U.S. always run a trade deficit?

#514
I assume that the New York Fed would like Americans to be more patriotic, save more, and buy less cheap imported crap, that's why they wrote this article in this way. But it skates past a few key issues.

1. Consumption doesn't zero out, because domestic consumption in the USA is mostly spent in China, not in the USA. That is what contributes to the trade deficit, not lack of saving.

2. Asset price inflation contributes hugely to the money supply. Where is this in this equation? It's not saving, it's not investment, it's not consumption, it's mind boggling amount of money created from nothing. That asset price inflation is the true source of wealth creation and money supply growth, not bond sales, quantitative easing, or whatever.

3. Domestic saving is in no way equivalent to productive investment in the US economy. Are people keeping money in their mattress considered accounting discrepancies? Companies hoard cash like dragons. What investment in USA? Have you seen much new equipment or new factories? What investment means here is pumping up USA asset prices, it stretches the definition of the word investment to the absolute limit. Domestic saving just ends up as unused savings in an account somewhere, we don't have a good mechanism to put it to actual productive use.

4. The true role of the Federal Reserve is to stabilize and increase asset prices. Money can be easily created by stimulating asset price growth.

5. Funds from abroad don't finance business investment in USA. Investment is a very nice way to put it. They are foreign funds snapping up American real estate and other hard assets. Investment somewhat implies it will lead to economic benefits. Foreign ownership of American assets, companies and real estate is what "investment" means. It doesn't mean growth, it means shrinkage, I think the foreign owned assets tend to lose their value.

Re: Why does the U.S. always run a trade deficit?

#515

Using a national currency as the de facto global reserve guarantees a trade deficit for that country. No one else can manufacture USD's, so other countries have to acquire them by shaping their economies to supply goods and services demanded by the US. They can then use these earned dollars to transact with other countries, as the US itself insists they do. For the US, this is a simple trade off - gain massive politi…

> the expense of hollowing out domestic industry

> Post WW2, US leadership [deliberately] traded the domestic manufacturing industry [capability] for national security, by making the US dollar the default international trade currency. [This] gave America benefits, but increased the value of the dollar astronomically, which made it impossible to manufacture anything locally ... the logic at the time was that Americans would up-skill en-masse, away from the menial manufacturing jobs [of history] -- but everyone is too much of a dumbass to stay in school [which is required for all of this to work] ... Let's Go Brandon!!

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/SCUy3DrUZmw

Re: Why does the U.S. always run a trade deficit?

#516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Clearly the US hasn't run out of cash and needed to massively print dollars to cover foreign debt Foreign debt is skyrocketing, with interest payments alone already becoming unworkable. Five or ten more years of this spells disaster, it’s totally unsustainable. Either something very drastic has to change, or that money printer will have to go into overdrive.

We could just massively tax the rich?

Only if you find a way to tax the rich in other countries.

Taxing the US rich redistributes money within the country while the problem (or a perceived problem, depending on your stance) is that US bleeds money across the board.

Re: Why does the U.S. always run a trade deficit?

#517
post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It gets massive amounts of products and services enabling the US residents live well beyond their means. What does this mean really? That is their means. For a somewhat topical example, people of Australia get access to cheap medications (in part because they pay to subsidize the cost of them but also because) their government negotiates with pharmaceutical corporations to pay lower prices. This kind of negotiation…

For other countries USD is something they have to work for or sell something to acquire it. If they screw up they may end up in crisis being unable to obtain USD. Borrowing in their own currency will be much more limited and borrowing in USD much more costly. USA on the other hand can just print it out of thin air and because the global USD liquidity is huge they can do it for much longer without facing the consequen…

Many countries control their currency and can print money to pay debts, and can control their fiscal and monetary policies to best gain advantage for themselves. And they do.

US can do some things more, bigger, longer, etc., for various reasons. Just like Australia can do more, bigger, longer, etc., than Tonga. I don't really see anything profound being said here.

USA might be in some advantageous position now, and it might not always be in such a position, which is a pretty bland observation, but it also does not support the idea that they are living beyond their means today.

Re: Why does the U.S. always run a trade deficit?

#518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the China story will stagnate if a serious effort at helping the bottom half of Chinese does not develop" So 800,000,000 people raised out of extreme poverty is a lie? Sounds like the bottom half is being well taken care of over there.

None of what I said detracts from China's success in eradicating extreme poverty. That said, the majority of Chinese households are still significantly less well off than their peers in other upper middle income countries as stats have shown multiple times. I don't see why anyone would be so virulently opposed to moving some industrial subsidy spend to expanding healthcare, revamping the current insurance system, pro…

> I don't see why anyone would be so virulently opposed to moving some industrial subsidy spend to expanding healthcare...

This is because many media outlets, whether intentionally or unintentionally, promote the 'China collapse theory,' making it difficult to draw reliable conclusions from curated information.

Take the FT article you cited earlier as an example. As someone living in China with parents who have chronic illnesses, let me describe what healthcare is actually like here:

My father and grandfather both have diabetes. They use NovoRapid insulin at about 40 RMB(6 USD) per pen, requiring 1-2 pens monthly (totaling 100 RMB, 14 USD). Domestic Chinese brands cost roughly half that price.

My mother and I have hyperlipidemia. Lipitor costs about 70 RMB(10 USD) monthly, while domestic alternatives cost around 10 RMB (2 USD).

China's healthcare system features centralized procurement policies where the government negotiates directly with pharmaceutical companies. To have your products included in the insurance formulary and reach more patients, manufacturers must reduce prices.

While this system has some issues (which we could discuss later), nearly all medications—including imported ones—are significantly cheaper in China than in the US.

Two years ago, my grandfather spent his final two weeks in ICU at a cost of 120,000 RMB (16700 USD). Insurance covered 100,000 RMB (14000 USD), leaving us with 20,000 RMB (2700 USD) out-of-pocket.

Regarding insurance coverage:

Rural and urban insurance have different reimbursement rates, but generally cover over 50%. My parents' retirement income is about 4,000 RMB (560 USD) monthly—relatively high for urban workers. In tier-3/4 cities, most retirees receive over 1,000 RMB (140 USD)monthly.

Now examining your cited article: Those two farmers never participated in any insurance programs. Having never contributed to:

- Pension funds (hence receiving only the minimum 150 RMB, 20USD monthly—standards vary by city, e.g., ~1,400 RMB,200USD in Shanghai)

- Medical insurance (400 RMB lowest level, 55USD annually, fixed.), making them ineligible for reimbursements. Rural insurance even allows retroactive payments-coverage begins three months after payment, regardless of preexisting conditions.

While such cases exist, they're exceptionally rare. In my entire life, I've only known two families who didn't enroll in insurance—both were wealthy enough to purchase private coverage.

Re: Why does the U.S. always run a trade deficit?

#519
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US doesn't just get political influence. It gets massive amounts of products and services enabling the US residents live well beyond their means. China for example, sends huge number of electronics and all kind of other consumer goods that Chinese produce by sweating in 12 hours shifts in 6 day work weeks in exchange for imaginary numbers. US is definitely not the victim here. There's the risk of this system stop wor…

> It gets massive amounts of products and services enabling the US residents live well beyond their means. What does this mean really? That is their means. For a somewhat topical example, people of Australia get access to cheap medications (in part because they pay to subsidize the cost of them but also because) their government negotiates with pharmaceutical corporations to pay lower prices. This kind of negotiation…

> Seems like that's the popular assertion but I don't see much solid reasoning behind it in this thread (not picking on you specifically), just handwaving about how USD's status as a global currency somehow makes trade deficits inevitable despite simple facts available that US had a surplus trade balance 50 years ago, when the USD has been considered the global / reserve currency for over 60 years.

Prior to 1971 the Dollar was tied to Gold and exchange rates were fixed by agreement.

Re: Why does the U.S. always run a trade deficit?

#520
post #426
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The growth rate of the economy wasn't limited by the rate of gold mining - people would just adjust prices relative to gold. And by most accepted measures I'm pretty sure the US economy was growing faster when it was on a gold standard.

This isn't correct. The gold standard caused a lot of problems with money shortages; in the 1800s they were called panics. The shortages powered William Jennings Bryan to the Democratic presidential nomination after his "Cross of Gold" speech. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Gold_speech

Were those panics ultimately bad for growth? The US in the 1800s was one of the fastest growing economies we've ever seen in all of human history; growing from ~0% to ~20% of the world economy. It isn't often someone outpaces that. The gold standard clearly didn't limit growth in any concerning way if you are associating it with one of the top 10 all time growing economies. In fact, dropping the gold standard has been associated with the economic weakness that characterises the modern US as they mean regress and the Asian powers regain economic ascendancy.

Panics and crisises aren't automatically a bad thing. If people are doing something wildly stupid they need to stop and undertake alternative activities. Something has to make them do that; if it is a panic then that is better than persisting with stupidity. Besides, the US still has regular crisises. There is one every 10 years or so. They just don't see as much upside between them as they used to.

> The shortages powered William Jennings Bryan to the Democratic presidential nomination after his "Cross of Gold" speech.

If Trump says something does that automatically make it true in 100 years? No. Politicians aren't automatically right and neither are voters. People get stuff wrong in policy all the time. Popularity and truth are different.

And Wikipedia suggests that most people disagreed with him regardless, he lost the election and the US proceeded to adopt a gold standard. Which still doesn't tell us much about its policy merits I might add.

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