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Making video games (without an engine) in 2025

noelberry.ca

11–20 of 257 posts

Re: Making video games (without an engine) in 2025

#11
post #9

Many people often say that making an engine from scratch takes too long. But how long does it take to properly learn Unreal or Unity such that you can have an idea and turn it into a game without friction? Presumably, once your engine is finished, you are at that level of expertise instantly, which is a huge time saver. In my opinion, the more experienced of an engineer you are, the more the scales tip in the favor o…

From a starting point of having dabbled in making 2D games in the past it took me a few days of working through tutorials and documentation for producing assets to be the bottleneck in building a game in Unreal. In Godot I was at the point of being able to make terrible games within a few hours. The amount of lifting that modern game engines do for you is phenomenal, and I think anyone claiming they can write an engine from scratch quicker than they can implement a game with an existing engine is deluding themselves.

Re: Making video games (without an engine) in 2025

#12
post #3

> I genuinely believe making games without a big "do everything" engine can be easier, more fun, and often less overhead. I am not making a "do everything" game and I do not need 90% of the features these engines provide. At that point, of course, you don't need the engine. Having said that, every time I've really deep-dived into some particular feature of an engine - such as inverse kinematics and animation blending…

animation blending isn't that bad. If you have a two poses represented as lists of quaternions and positions, all you have to do slerp between the quaternions and lerp between the positions. FABRIK IK algo is a ~100 loc function.

Agreed, though getting to that point of understanding is what takes time. Also, there are literally dozens of similar topics where a solo dev should be happy to take any help they can get, IMHO. I'm sure audio is similarly easy, as is input, pathfinding, AI decision trees, physics, etc, etc.

Re: Making video games (without an engine) in 2025

#13
post #9

Many people often say that making an engine from scratch takes too long. But how long does it take to properly learn Unreal or Unity such that you can have an idea and turn it into a game without friction? Presumably, once your engine is finished, you are at that level of expertise instantly, which is a huge time saver. In my opinion, the more experienced of an engineer you are, the more the scales tip in the favor o…

I am not familiar with Unreal, but Unity is much faster than programming from scratch, easily 10x or more.

One obvious example is physics behavior, which you can add to your game in under a minute, but with your own engine you'd need a day or two to properly integrate an external library. All the internal state visualization that Noel's showing off here is already built in by default in Unity. It has nice tools to draw and modify bounding boxes, and in the rare cases where the engine's behavior isn't enough, it's highly extensible (using ImGui or Unity's Yoga-based CSS engine, which I prefer). Unity has countless features like this: a sophisticated particle editor, a high-level "write once, run anywhere" shader language with enormous amounts of complexity abstracted away, systems for streaming and keeping track of modular data, and much, much more.

In an ideal world, I'd want to write these things myself, but time ticks away and unfortunately I'd prefer to prioritize finishing games more quickly.

Re: Making video games (without an engine) in 2025

#14
post #9

Many people often say that making an engine from scratch takes too long. But how long does it take to properly learn Unreal or Unity such that you can have an idea and turn it into a game without friction? Presumably, once your engine is finished, you are at that level of expertise instantly, which is a huge time saver. In my opinion, the more experienced of an engineer you are, the more the scales tip in the favor o…

I think there’s a misconception due to the large overlap between games, graphics, and physics engines.

Graphics are anything from rendering 2d, 3d, shaders, scene graph, animation.

Physics and related interact with the scene graph.

The game part allows for dynamic behavior and of course the game logic/triggers.

Add some ui, and resource management, abs lastly of course ai.

Creating your own engine with different architectures is indeed the best way to learn how/why an engine works. But alll the details that come with it. That’s really a lot and probably way too much for one person. You’d be surprised how much is in there (in unreal engine)

Re: Making video games (without an engine) in 2025

#15
post #9

Many people often say that making an engine from scratch takes too long. But how long does it take to properly learn Unreal or Unity such that you can have an idea and turn it into a game without friction? Presumably, once your engine is finished, you are at that level of expertise instantly, which is a huge time saver. In my opinion, the more experienced of an engineer you are, the more the scales tip in the favor o…

I am not familiar with Unreal, but Unity is much faster than programming from scratch, easily 10x or more. One obvious example is physics behavior, which you can add to your game in under a minute, but with your own engine you'd need a day or two to properly integrate an external library. All the internal state visualization that Noel's showing off here is already built in by default in Unity. It has nice tools to dr…

At this point using any engine instead of unity is better. Unity has demonstrated time and again that they cannot be trusted and that you cannot build a game (or business) around them.

Re: Making video games (without an engine) in 2025

#16
post #5

I really liked this post. I've recently been learning OpenGL and C++, and the libraries surrounding it, like ImGui, which I like using a lot ! But for my projects I think I'll keep using Godot. I really want to make a game, and not the tooling required to make a game. That said, I've dabbled in GDExtension, and if I really need to have something performant, I'll use that. I've got huge amounts of respect for people d…

The one thing that perplexes me is that there are some annoying warts of Godot that make developing a game in it different than making a game yourself and nobody thinks "hey wouldn't it be easier to make Godot work in this way, than to do everything from scratch?"

The key difference is the code driven development workflow that makes it easy to keep different concerns like visual assets, collision boxes, navigation, etc separate.

If you do this in Godot, the standard editor features become meaningless, because they are optimized for throwaway workflows with extremely tight coupling (e.g. a player character IS a node containing subnodes, rather than the player character being a high level concept, whose nodes merely represent the player character).

Re: Making video games (without an engine) in 2025

#18
After having worked on my own (2D) game engine [1] for about 5 years now and having worked on related stuff for paid work I'd like to explain one thing that many people might not find so obvious.

Engines are the easy part.

The real meat & potatoes is all the tooling and content and asset pipelines around the engine. If you think about it, you need to implement:

  -  importing data from various sources and formats, textures, audio, model files such as gltf, fbx, animations etc etc.
  - editor app with all the expected standard editing features, cut, copy, paste, undo, redo, save, delete etc. 
  - all the visualizations and operations that let the game developer use the editor to actually create and manipulate data, entities, animations, scenes, audio graphs, scripting support etc. etc.
  - all the data packaging and baking such as baking static geometries, compiling shaders, resampling and packing textures, audio, creating game content asset packs etc
  - etc etc.
And this is just a small sample of all the features and things that need to be done in order to be able to leverage the engine part.

When all this is done you learn that the actual game engine (i.e. the runtime part that implements the game's main loop and the subsystems that go brrr) is actually a rather small part of the whole system.

This is why game studios typically have rather small teams (relatively speaking) working on the engine and hordes of "tools" programmers that can handle all the adjacent work that is super critical for the success of the whole thing.

[1] https://github.com/ensisoft/detonator

Re: Making video games (without an engine) in 2025

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not familiar with Unreal, but Unity is much faster than programming from scratch, easily 10x or more. One obvious example is physics behavior, which you can add to your game in under a minute, but with your own engine you'd need a day or two to properly integrate an external library. All the internal state visualization that Noel's showing off here is already built in by default in Unity. It has nice tools to dr…

At this point using any engine instead of unity is better. Unity has demonstrated time and again that they cannot be trusted and that you cannot build a game (or business) around them.

Sometimes you have to do business with counterparties you don't trust. It's not mature or practical to take an "all-or-nothing" approach while the engine has virtually no competition for many classes of games.

Re: Making video games (without an engine) in 2025

#20
post #9

Many people often say that making an engine from scratch takes too long. But how long does it take to properly learn Unreal or Unity such that you can have an idea and turn it into a game without friction? Presumably, once your engine is finished, you are at that level of expertise instantly, which is a huge time saver. In my opinion, the more experienced of an engineer you are, the more the scales tip in the favor o…

>Many people often say that making an engine from scratch takes too long. But how long does it take to properly learn Unreal or Unity such that you can have an idea and turn it into a game without friction? Presumably, once your engine is finished, you are at that level of expertise instantly, which is a huge time saver. In my opinion, the more experienced of an engineer you are, the more the scales tip in the favor of rolling your own, from a time-spent perspective

I once experimented with creating my own game engine. It took me about a year of building and learning along the way (through trial and error, with many dead ends initially). It featured lots of things you'd typically find in a game (3D rendering with all the bells and whistles, an adaptive UI framework inspired by flexbox, skeletal animation, a save file format, a smart object system, path finding, a scripting language, audio, physics, et cetera, et cetera)

Specifically, I tried to recreate Braid's system (without knowing it existed), where you can rewind your game to any point in time. It required support from all the engine's subsystems - to rewind scripts, physics, etc.

Knowing every little detail about your game engine was certainly a plus. After the engine was more-less complete, adding a feature, however ambitious it was, took about a couple of hours at most. When something didn't work, I knew exactly what was going on.

However, after a year of building, I was somewhat exhausted, and all my motivation to continue disappeared :)

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