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New research reveals the strongest solar event ever detected, in 12350 BC

phys.org

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Re: New research reveals the strongest solar event ever detected, in 12350 BC

#61

Post by Mistletoe »

ggm wrote: post #3

This would not have been kind to any RF/EMF systems, be they GEO, LEO or terrestrial. We'd have been walking around marvelling at st elmo's fire coming off any point-contact junction between metal or exposed metal structure, with the most fantastic skies at night. On the other hand, would allergy sufferers be marvelling at the removal of all the dust and pollen? This would be like the outdoors becoming a giant anti-s…

I feel like primitive man had no problems breathing through both nostrils anyway.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/allergies-are-common...

Re: New research reveals the strongest solar event ever detected, in 12350 BC

#62

Post by mock-possum »

verisimi wrote: post #38

Isn't it amazing that we have an in-silico model that goes back thousands of years and can even tell us about atmospheric conditions 12,000+ years ago? We can confirm this via miyake events which are registered as growth in the tree rings. One just cuts down 13,000 year old trees to confirm the model, and we're good!

Surely one could just make due with a core sample.

Re: New research reveals the strongest solar event ever detected, in 12350 BC

#63

Post by cyberax »

ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote: post #55
cyberax wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There won't be any effect. Solar flares do NOT affect the devices on the ground. All the fast-moving charged particles are completely absorbed in the upper atmosphere. And to give you some perspective, the most energetic flares can produce 10^-3 W/m^2 flux at the Earth's orbit. The flares do affect the geomagnetic field. And a changing magnetic field induces current, but it becomes non-negligible only for very long c…

> But locally? You won't see anything unusual. Not necessarily? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-event_upset Some Miyake events are also thought have lasted a year or longer. I think there could be a very bad time if an event like this lasted a year?

Solar flares consist of protons and electrons, that are pretty slow-moving by nuclear standards. So they get absorbed by the atmosphere completely.

What solar flares do, they deform the Earth's magnetic field so that more cosmic rays (from outside the Solar System) can reach the surface. But the cosmic ray flux is not that high to begin with. And electronic devices certainly won't self-destruct if the radiation is slightly higher than normal.

After all, you experience far more cosmic ray radiation when you're flying on an airplane than during one of these events!

Re: New research reveals the strongest solar event ever detected, in 12350 BC

#65

Post by ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 »

chgs wrote: post #59
ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about ground to satellite communication?

That would be radio links. Not many satellites connected to the ground by copper cable.

Yeah, I was asking generally with regard to panic involving "computers and everyday electrical devices", which I thought would be obvious, apologies.

Re: New research reveals the strongest solar event ever detected, in 12350 BC

#66

Post by monster_truck »

alex-robbins wrote: post #50
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #45

I hope it doesn't take so long to happen again that we have nobody around who remembers how to fix what it breaks. If so it'll be back to the stone ages for humanity.

You think that the farther in the future you go, the less likely it is that any existing population will know how to fix what breaks? That strikes me as oddly pessimistic, and frankly unlikely.

I wouldn't be so sure, it's wildly common. Reverse engineering products to figure out how to make them again is its own sub-industry in every manufacturing field, especially anything tool & die.

There's an enormous chasm between when companies started mass producing things and the digitization of blueprints. More often than not it isn't even the original company, it's one of their customer's customers 50+ years after they went out of business.

Re: New research reveals the strongest solar event ever detected, in 12350 BC

#67

Post by cyberax »

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #51
jiggawatts wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The panic about these is way out of proportion with the real risks. Modern systems have all sorts of over-voltage protection, and we no longer use "telegraph wires" directly connected to vulnerable electronics like speakers and amplifiers. All modern telecommunications are over fibre or radio links.

How much do wire distance, intended voltage matter? All the power electronics are almost certainly protected by caps, but are big office ethernet runs long enough to cause issues? What about coax cables? It seems like with how many more cables we have now, that one of them probably has a design that would cause notable inconvenience.

You need at least hundreds of kilometers for the effects to become significant (as in "tens of volts"). Nothing on the small scale will be affected.

Power lines might be the most vulnerable part, actually. The geomagnetic field can induce current that will bias the core of transformers, causing them to overheat. This can lead to blackouts if the networks are close to capacity, and it's suspected that the 2003 North East Blackout was at least partially caused by them.

Re: New research reveals the strongest solar event ever detected, in 12350 BC

#68

Post by ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 »

cyberax wrote: post #63
ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But locally? You won't see anything unusual. Not necessarily? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-event_upset Some Miyake events are also thought have lasted a year or longer. I think there could be a very bad time if an event like this lasted a year?

Solar flares consist of protons and electrons, that are pretty slow-moving by nuclear standards. So they get absorbed by the atmosphere completely. What solar flares do, they deform the Earth's magnetic field so that more cosmic rays (from outside the Solar System) can reach the surface. But the cosmic ray flux is not that high to begin with. And electronic devices certainly won't self-destruct if the radiation is sl…

Right, but there are still risks (aside from SEUs) that one would "experience locally"?

https://assets.lloyds.com/assets/pdf-solar-storm-risk-to-the...

Re: New research reveals the strongest solar event ever detected, in 12350 BC

#70

Post by fshafique »

decimalenough wrote: post #41

The article casually mentions a "notorious" 775 AD event which I'd never heard about (insert relevant XKCD here), so here's Wikipedia: The event of 774 had no significant consequences for life on Earth, but had it happened in modern times, it might have produced catastrophic damage to modern technology, particularly to communication and space-borne navigation systems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/774%E2%80%93775_car…

Chances are that people died of other causes before any cancer could metastasize.
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