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Spaced repetition systems have gotten better

domenic.me

421–430 of 538 posts

Re: Spaced repetition systems have gotten better

#421
post #318

I see a lot of discussion about SRS, and I think most can agree they have improved. What I would like to see covered is a more vague area, but almost more important: It’s the space in between reading/understanding something and the SRS. There are almost no standalone tools dedicated to creating flashcards easily from existing programs (web browser, PDF readers etc.) into popular SRS (Anki, Mochi etc.). They should wo…

> There are almost no standalone tools dedicated to creating flashcards easily from existing programs I think this is a common misunderstanding. Half the benefit of SRS comes from working out what the flashcards are. You have to circle around a concept, look for similarities, differences, examples, generalisations, properties, etc. Is it hard work? Yes. Does it help understanding? Massively. This is also a very diffi…

> Half the benefit of SRS comes from working out what the flashcards are. You have to circle around a concept, look for similarities, differences, examples, generalisations, properties, etc.

This is at least half true, but among SRS folks it's overstated.

The same argument stands for any creative endeavor.

Debussy had a greater experience than I did with Claire de Lune, because he composed it. In turn, my experience of it is probably greater than the next persons' because I learned it. Bottom of the heap is the lowly listener - but I think everyone would agree that listening is a wonderful way to appreciate music and shouldn't be diminished.

Same for literature, visual arts, etc etc.

The still greater reason that create-your-own has historically dominated for SRS decks is the specific curation aspect. Anything curated by someone else suffers from mismatch with your own intentions and prior knowledge profile.

(Plug time. Like most people, I am building my own grandiose SRS app. Some writing on it is here: http://patched.network )

Re: Spaced repetition systems have gotten better

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm building a reader app that tries to solve this exact problem by providing a range of gradually simplified versions of each article to match your proficiency. So you can stay in the sweet spot, or work your way up version by version. If your target language happens to be Chinese then you can give it a try at https://reader.longyan.io/landing No login required, love your feedback.

Sure. This kind of project seems to be pretty common. I'd strongly suggest using traditional characters as a base because it's very easy to map multiple characters into simplified forms but much harder to disambiguate simplified forms into the traditional versions. Related comment on another app: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43769831

Thanks for having a look, I actually started out from traditional characters, but once I realized >90% of the students only do simplified I switched.

I also tend to believe to just convert between them is not the best approach. Better to find different content for both. If student wants to learn traditional script, they usualy want content from Taiwan and not from China, and the other way round.

Re: Spaced repetition systems have gotten better

#423
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s amazing how every single point you’ve made here is wrong as the other commenter already dove into. On top of that Anki is one of the best documented pieces of open-source software I’ve messed with. If you’re able to program, ChatGPT can basically handle any task you want it too, I data mine the sqllite database regularly for my own insights.

I think there is an argument to be made about the poor learning curve (ironic) for learning how to organize and use Anki

This is probably my biggest gripe. It’s so much information to digest at first, it’s a tough ask. And there’s so many rookie mistakes.

I made the mistake of just jumping in and I would say I spent the first 6 months using Anki “wrong” in the sense I would make bad cards, try to make mc questions, not enabling or optimizing FSRS, capping reviews, doing Anki before I knew the material, etc.

I’m someone who loves to learn from scratch/figure it out myself. I would never recommend watching a YouTube tutorial or following a guide for something you can figure out yourself, but I have to make an exception for Anki. Anki is one of those rare things where it’s simply just better to just copy what someone else is doing and figure out adjustments for your own workflow over time.

Re: Spaced repetition systems have gotten better

#424
I am the creator of Trane (https://github.com/trane-project/trane/) which can replace Anki and similar systems for domains that have a well-defined hierarchy between subskills (turns out that's most of them, including learning vocabulary).

There are several unresolved issues with Anki, SuperMemo, at al.

1. Emphasis on memorization. I wanted something that could be applied to domains (music) whose scoring is not based on memorization, but mastery.

2. Lack of any hierarchical information limits how well it works to learn much larger skills. It's trivial to replicate the functionality of Anki with Trane: just have one lesson where you put all your exercises. Anki cannot replicate what Trane does, which is to use the dependencies of the many sub-skills to track and limit progress until mastery is achieved.

3. Emphasis on creating your own exercises. You are expected to come up with your own decks, which takes a lot of time. For complicated skills, you need to be a domain expert to really know how to do this.

Trane is pretty much done, and I have used it to teach myself music. It does not have a UI at the moment, so I am pretty sure I am the only user. Not that I mind, because I rather not work for free.

Currently working on a literacy tutor that will be built on top of it. When it's complete, it will be able to guide all students from learning their A-B-Cs to reading and writing at college level, backed by the most up-to-date research on reading and writing acquisition. Hopefully I will be able to release an MVP in the middle of the year.

Re: Spaced repetition systems have gotten better

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dozens of apps, thousands of lectures, and it turns out its not really a silver bullet. Easy statement to make when you're not defining the silver bullet. Kind of like saying dieting turns out not to be a silver bullet. I've used spaced repairing for over 6 years. It's been transformative for me.

What info did you memorize?

Basic undergrad statistics. This doesn't make me better at doing statistics, but now I can understand things I read. Whereas prior to SR, I had learned the material three separate times - always forgot because of lack of use. SR made it stick.

Algorithms and data structures.

Basics of HTML/CSS/JS. I'm not a frontend developer, but this was enough for me to (mostly) understand colleagues' JS code. And often I would inform him of one of the newer JS features he didn't know of (e.g. null coalescing operator). Does it make me a JS developer? No. But it ensures I'm not useless at it.

Python 3.x new features. Simple things like "Stop using os.walk and use scandir instead".

A whole lot of Emacs keybindings. I was a heavy Emacs user before SR, but this really helped take it to the next level (I now mostly rely on hydras, so I no longer memorize keystrokes, cut I can't deny its effectiveness).

Some amount of elisp.

Probably a whole lot more random miscellany I can't recall right now.

Basically, what it does is let you retain information without usage. Prior to this, I would mostly retain only things I use (or had used) often.

I was in university for over a decade. Took lots of notes. But they're useless if you don't review them. Some years after leaving university I stopped trying to learn anything technical unless I was putting it to immediate use. Why bother if you're going to forget?

SR is what let me get back to studying for fun.

Re: Spaced repetition systems have gotten better

#426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dozens of apps, thousands of lectures, and it turns out its not really a silver bullet. Easy statement to make when you're not defining the silver bullet. Kind of like saying dieting turns out not to be a silver bullet. I've used spaced repairing for over 6 years. It's been transformative for me.

Would love to hear about how it was transformative for you

See my response here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44025350

Re: Spaced repetition systems have gotten better

#427
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that but it's completely revolutionized the way medical students study. IIRC the effect was so profound they had to modify the structure of some tests or something to that effect. And polyglots have been using SRS for years. As always, the real problem when people fail to do something that works is psychological, not technical. I'd say anyone who made an Ozempic for motivation would make a killing, but I beli…

>I'd say anyone who made an Ozempic for motivation would make a killing This is just ADHD meds right? That's why the uni students spend so much buying them.

> This is just ADHD meds right?

Not really. They're just stimulants. Anyway, I'm very skeptical of this use.

I'd guess uni students are buying methamphetamines them because they have gotten themselves into a situation that they cannot handle - too many non-academic scheduled activities, not enough time management skills, possibly a heavy courseload combined with several weeks of avoidance of things they found difficult, poor sleep habits, etc. They need to stay awake and work. I don't think that's all you're talking about, though.

I wouldn't discount the idea that some have an undiagnosed attention deficit problem.

Re: Spaced repetition systems have gotten better

#428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. This kind of project seems to be pretty common. I'd strongly suggest using traditional characters as a base because it's very easy to map multiple characters into simplified forms but much harder to disambiguate simplified forms into the traditional versions. Related comment on another app: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43769831

Thanks for having a look, I actually started out from traditional characters, but once I realized >90% of the students only do simplified I switched. I also tend to believe to just convert between them is not the best approach. Better to find different content for both. If student wants to learn traditional script, they usualy want content from Taiwan and not from China, and the other way round.

Almost anybody serious about learning Chinese is going to want to read some things written before the 1960s and for those things, people are reading the exact same books, essays, poems, speeches, etc. The simplified versions of all of those works are literally converted from the traditional versions. Ditto for all kinds of popular content that originated in HK, TW and overseas Chinese communities.

There is no long-term gain from storing "hair" and "emit" under the same entry in your database. Storing 髮 and 發 separately, along with 发 as the simplification of both is a small effort now that will constrain you a lot less in the future. I've literally seen this pitfall happen with about 40 different Chinese learning apps over the last 15 years. Only a few (like Du Chinese and Pleco) got it right early on.

Re: Spaced repetition systems have gotten better

#429

I am the creator of Trane ( https://github.com/trane-project/trane/ ) which can replace Anki and similar systems for domains that have a well-defined hierarchy between subskills (turns out that's most of them, including learning vocabulary). There are several unresolved issues with Anki, SuperMemo, at al. 1. Emphasis on memorization. I wanted something that could be applied to domains (music) whose scoring is not bas…

> For complicated skills, you need to be a domain expert to really know how to do this. (...) I have used it to teach myself music.

It sounds like you must have had some interesting difficulties with that, not having been a domain expert in music. What were they and how did you overcome them?

Re: Spaced repetition systems have gotten better

#430

I’ve been using Anki for about a decade now, and as far as I’m concerned, the only real improvements needed are design/UI based. It is functionally irrelevant if the algorithm is optimized or not when the actual user interface seems boring to potential users. While I do like that Anki has power user options, it’s also very unintuitive to the average person just looking into it. Which is really a shame, as the spacing…

Ah i've been curious about what improvements folks would like to see most in SRS learning and this thread is gold! It does seem as though Anki’s core is undeniably solid, yet its power can also feel like a hurdle for non power users. Additionally, i'm not sure "boring" is necessarily bad, as i've heard and to agree that learning may be best when it feels like a strenuous workout.

I've been exploring some of these questions in my personal foray in design. If anyone’s interested, I posted an early experiment here: https://dribbble.com/shots/25737616-Descartes-Design-Flashca...

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