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Spaced repetition systems have gotten better

domenic.me

251–260 of 538 posts

Re: Spaced repetition systems have gotten better

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand, wouldn't it be worse for motivation to take longer to achieve the same results?

What's worse for motivation than taking longer? Boredom? Feeling like what you're doing is low-quality or superficial? Doing something artificial for purely external reasons like grades or exams? Can't speak for anyone else, but for me I would take slower progress over any of these... which makes spaced repetition a hard sell.

> What's worse for motivation than taking longer?

Many things. I think HN is a bit of a bubble here, but you'll find a lot of people prefer something enjoyable but slower to something efficient and faster, even if they won't admit it.

See the popularity of Duolingo vs Anki as an example! Or Quizlet vs Anki. Or the scores of students who revise by half-watching dopamine-ified youtube videos rather than doing past papers and flashcards. If you ask people, they'll often say they care for efficiency, but their revealed preferences say otherwise.

Doing large amounts (hours) of Anki day in day out is truly miserable, particularly when the alternatives can be quite enjoyable. And if you burn out before you achieve your goal, is the "efficiency" really worth it vs going slower but eventually getting there?

Plus, a lot of people want to learn e.g. a language because they enjoy the process as well as the end result. Making the process miserable in order to get to the end result faster isn't always a good tradeoff.

Which is what it's about. It's a tradeoff. I'm a big proponent of flashcards, but I think it's important to recognise that you're trading enjoyment for speed in most cases.

Re: Spaced repetition systems have gotten better

#252
post #6

Spaced repetition has been all the rage for 20 years now. Dozens of apps, thousands of lectures, and it turns out its not really a silver bullet. There's nothing really wrong with it, it's just that people tend to fall off the same way they do on any other education pattern. A couple years ago I was thinking "If Google and Apple really cared about kids they would make a spaced repetition unlock system", where by you…

Spaced repetition is time-optimised , but it isn't self-discipline optimised, nor motivation-optimised. If you're limited by time, it's very efficient, but it drains motivation. If you're anywhere close to being limited by motivation (or, failing that, self-discipline), it just causes burnout and failure. I credit Anki to my success at GCSEs and A Levels despite having a head injury, and I also credit it to me burnin…

>I also credit it to me burning out so hard I took a gap year!

Do you think targeting a sub-90% difficulty could help reduce burnout? My experience is that working to recall something I'm on the verge of forgetting can be very effortful.

Re: Spaced repetition systems have gotten better

#253
post #249

I found it a little annoying that SRS is immediately explained to mean Spaced Repetition System, but then the F is added without explaining what it stands for. Most references of the article do neither. Except https://github.com/open-spaced-repetition/fsrs4anki/wiki/The... which says the F means Free. Seems a little too easy? I found nothing else. Chatgpt says it means Flexible, which actually makes more sense? Anybo…

What does the 'Free' mean in the name?

The algorithm (FSRS) supports reviewing in advance or delay. It's free for users to decide the time of review. And it will adapt to the user's memory.

Meanwhile, spaced repetition is one essential technology to achieve free learning.

FSRS runs entirely locally and has no risk under others' control.

source: https://github.com/open-spaced-repetition/free-spaced-repeti...

Re: Spaced repetition systems have gotten better

#254
post #249

I found it a little annoying that SRS is immediately explained to mean Spaced Repetition System, but then the F is added without explaining what it stands for. Most references of the article do neither. Except https://github.com/open-spaced-repetition/fsrs4anki/wiki/The... which says the F means Free. Seems a little too easy? I found nothing else. Chatgpt says it means Flexible, which actually makes more sense? Anybo…

SRS usually means "spaced repetition system", but FSRS stands for "Free Spaced Repetition Scheduler". https://github.com/open-spaced-repetition/fsrs4anki/wiki/ABC...

Re: Spaced repetition systems have gotten better

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ”I realized I was hitting an issue where I theoretically "knew" a word (would get it always correct on the card), but wouldn't always recognize it in a novel context.” Some of the problem is due to the specificity of the training effect. I.e., if you mostly practice something through flash cards then you’re going to be training your ability to work with that on flash cards. With language, there’s an additional chal…

Yeah, I'm trying to spend a lot more of my language learning time just reading/listening to content in my target language, but it's actually pretty difficult to find enough content that is in the right difficulty band where it has some words/grammar etc. that I am still learning but not so much that I just can't understand it at all.

Check out if there are comprehensible input sites for your target language if you haven’t already, for example fo spanish there is: https://www.dreamingspanish.com/ which puts out videos labeled with various difficulties of speaking and listening

Re: Spaced repetition systems have gotten better

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's worse for motivation than taking longer? Boredom? Feeling like what you're doing is low-quality or superficial? Doing something artificial for purely external reasons like grades or exams? Can't speak for anyone else, but for me I would take slower progress over any of these... which makes spaced repetition a hard sell.

> What's worse for motivation than taking longer? Many things. I think HN is a bit of a bubble here, but you'll find a lot of people prefer something enjoyable but slower to something efficient and faster, even if they won't admit it. See the popularity of Duolingo vs Anki as an example! Or Quizlet vs Anki. Or the scores of students who revise by half-watching dopamine-ified youtube videos rather than doing past pape…

Maybe an 80/20 approach where you only create flashcards for the 20% of knowledge that's most useful? E.g. for a language, you could create 1000 flashcards for the 1000 most common words which allow for basic real-world communication?

Re: Spaced repetition systems have gotten better

#258
post #6

Spaced repetition has been all the rage for 20 years now. Dozens of apps, thousands of lectures, and it turns out its not really a silver bullet. There's nothing really wrong with it, it's just that people tend to fall off the same way they do on any other education pattern. A couple years ago I was thinking "If Google and Apple really cared about kids they would make a spaced repetition unlock system", where by you…

> Dozens of apps, thousands of lectures, and it turns out its not really a silver bullet. Easy statement to make when you're not defining the silver bullet. Kind of like saying dieting turns out not to be a silver bullet. I've used spaced repairing for over 6 years. It's been transformative for me.

What info did you memorize?

Re: Spaced repetition systems have gotten better

#259

They have gotten better and I think it's clear they'll continue to get better :). FSRS is already good (I use it both in Anki and for periplus.app), but looking at the benchmarks [1] there's a lot of room left for improvement. One direction could be to incorporate semantics, which afair FSRS doesn't do at all yet. A good flashcard deck will have a lot of semantic overlap, e.g., a card for the vocab word itself, that…

Unfortunately, the 10k dataset for the benchmark does not include any text/media files, as sharing that publicly would violate Anki's privacy policy. Regarding accuracy, FSRS-6 is pretty good: https://imgur.com/a/calibration-of-different-fsrs-versions-K...

Re: Spaced repetition systems have gotten better

#260
post #37
post #13

I'm sorry, I didn't read the article but I thought my experience would be a good anecdote. I've used Anki for multiple years and learned around 18'000 Japanese words. It's difficult to say but I'd say I've learned how to read around 5'000 kanji. When I studied in Japan, my kanji reading—don't mix that up with comprehension !—was way above everyone else's. And most of my classmates were either Korean or Chinese. That'…

There's a surprising gulf between word recognition and overall sentence comprehension. I'm learning Farsi with a combination of Anki and Youtube videos and sometimes I find myself in the weird state where I recognize every word in a sentence, but yet cannot assemble its overall meaning.

Yeah there’s a few different levels. 1) not knowing the words 2) knowing all the words but not what they mean together 3) not being able to keep up with the speed at which the sentence is spoken…
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