Django vs. Rails: The Dead-Tree Edition • Hacker News Board

Re: Django vs. Rails: The Dead-Tree Edition

#31

Post by FraaJad » Mon, Jan 19, 2009, 2:54 AM UTC

dasil003 wrote: post #25

GrandMasterBirt wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sneaky sonofabitch! RoR obviously gained some massive popularity. However I don't understand why Django did not gain as much as RoR did. Python is a damn good language, which by the way is gaining some momentum due to google's big fat presence with the app engine. So why is Ruby so popular? To be honest I am actually pretty unhappy with ruby (don't give me any more one-liner ruby scripts or I will bitch-smack yo…

However I don't understand why Django did not gain as much as RoR did Two reasons. First, unlike Python, Ruby didn't have any viable web framework in 2004, so it was easy to attract Ruby developers. Second, and more importantly, David is much better marketer than Adrian. He poked the J2EE hornet's nest and evangelized the hell out of Rails for the first year and really got the snowball rolling.

and also because python programmers are confident of their language and ecosystem not to resort to gimmicks like the "F* You" slides.

It could have ended badly for Rails except that lot of Java developers ended up tasting the heady mix of dynamic languages and web 2.0 via Rails thanks to Java gurus like Martin Fowler. And coming from the staid world of Java, a colourful character and opinionated framework was hip and happening.

Meanwhile, pythoneers did what they do best, keep producing good code and documentation. This is a recurring theme across many areas where python is good at not just web frameworks.

Python does not nurture over the top behaviour (I notice that neither does Ruby.. Rails is another matter).

Re: Django vs. Rails: The Dead-Tree Edition

#32

Post by tdavis » Mon, Jan 19, 2009, 2:59 AM UTC

andr wrote: post #6

In the spirit of the article, I prove that Jesus is better than Rails, because there are 779 times more books about him. Jesus books (333,560): http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=1232312844/ref=sr_nr_i_0?ie=UTF8... Rails books (428): http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b?url=search-alias%3Dstrip...

Yeah, but how many books about Jesus have animals on the cover? Rails has a lot of animals. Django has no animals, except a bee or something. Rationally, I guess I shouldn't have picked Django.

Re: Django vs. Rails: The Dead-Tree Edition

#33

Post by jhancock » Mon, Jan 19, 2009, 4:07 AM UTC

I'll wait until django works with python 3 and rails becomes v3. Then I"ll decide which set of dead trees I like best. Of course by then, I expect full ajaxy docs for each on an iPhone app, so no dead trees at all.

Re: Django vs. Rails: The Dead-Tree Edition

#34

Post by tedshroyer » Mon, Jan 19, 2009, 6:57 AM UTC

I think the number of widely published books on any subject is an indicator of how much money publishers think can be made more than how good the thing is.

Re: Django vs. Rails: The Dead-Tree Edition

#35

Post by vesan » Mon, Jan 19, 2009, 8:06 AM UTC

There is 4 books on non-Rails topics on the Rails section. 3 Ruby books and REST-book. But yeah, there is more Rails-books, so what?

Re: Django vs. Rails: The Dead-Tree Edition

#36

Post by dasil003 » Mon, Jan 19, 2009, 5:38 PM UTC

FraaJad wrote: post #31

dasil003 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However I don't understand why Django did not gain as much as RoR did Two reasons. First, unlike Python, Ruby didn't have any viable web framework in 2004, so it was easy to attract Ruby developers. Second, and more importantly, David is much better marketer than Adrian. He poked the J2EE hornet's nest and evangelized the hell out of Rails for the first year and really got the snowball rolling.

and also because python programmers are confident of their language and ecosystem not to resort to gimmicks like the "F * You" slides. It could have ended badly for Rails except that lot of Java developers ended up tasting the heady mix of dynamic languages and web 2.0 via Rails thanks to Java gurus like Martin Fowler. And coming from the staid world of Java, a colourful character and opinionated framework was hip an…

and also because python programmers are confident of their language and ecosystem not to resort to gimmicks

But not confident enough to be just a little bitter about Rails' success?

Seriously, if you think DHH is an asshole then say so. Maybe you would never sink to his level to promote your project. Fine. But jumping to the conclusion that he's not confident of his language is just rationalization. The ugly truth is that brilliant tech is ignored every day because someone didn't know how to market it.

Re: Django vs. Rails: The Dead-Tree Edition

#37

Post by dasil003 » Mon, Jan 19, 2009, 5:42 PM UTC

dustineichler wrote: post #19

I have always had a problem with django documentation. It's bad. I struggled for a long time with django figuring out what I could do on my own, but the problem isn't simply on the community size, or the number of books, it's also the type of people involved. There's a number of people whom don't want to see it change/grow and that's where I found it frustrating. I don't think you can expect more books to be written…

I hope you don't compose code the way you compose paragraphs. Good lord!