A Tor of the Dark Web • Hacker News Board

Re: A Tor of the Dark Web

#181

Post by DanBC » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 1:28 PM UTC

marvin wrote: post #174

DanBC wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, Tor is only as good as the person using it. I urge caution against amateur investigations, but it'd be interesting to see what software tools could be written to help law enforcement do a better job. Statistical analysis of text "social web" etc.

Just be careful, if you get too god at this it might be used for things you don't agree with. This is an area that I would steer completely clear of, the same way I'd never help develop chemical or biological weapons.

An excellent stance.

You'd have missed out on the opportunity to work with Feynman if you'd declined work at the Manhattan Project.

Re: A Tor of the Dark Web

#182

Post by marvin » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 1:49 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #181

marvin wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just be careful, if you get too god at this it might be used for things you don't agree with. This is an area that I would steer completely clear of, the same way I'd never help develop chemical or biological weapons.

An excellent stance. You'd have missed out on the opportunity to work with Feynman if you'd declined work at the Manhattan Project.

Are you saying that working with a very skilled person is worth sacrificing your ethical integrity? I would not hesitate for a second to deny working on things I consider against my personal beliefs even if there was both money and fame at stake.

To use the good old reductio ad absurdum, would you be willing to kill a random stranger if it meant you would get to work with Albert Einstein?

Re: A Tor of the Dark Web

#183

Post by noahc » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 3:55 PM UTC

rdl wrote: post #158

GFKjunior wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that be any different from a weapons market? If either existed (in brick and motor or amazon style stores) I would frequent both regularly.

gunbroker.com is a pretty decent online weapons market. I use it quite frequently (in full compliance with state and federal law).

If you're interested in this type of thing:

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/ -- Mostly Military and Older Weaponry.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/default.aspx -- C&R, Military and Black Rifles

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php -- Modern Firearms from almost all medium and large manufactures

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/ -- Whole sale gun catolog.

Re: A Tor of the Dark Web

#184

Post by slifty » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 4:00 PM UTC

justincormack wrote: post #26

columbo wrote: post #11

FYI this is all I get running chromium in linux: http://i.imgur.com/7FUlr.png

Same with Chrome on Android after a flash of the content...

Yep -- apologies for that. I found the offending plugin and killed it dead.

Re: A Tor of the Dark Web

#185

Post by muyuu » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 4:05 PM UTC

I hate it how all discussion about anonymity and privacy ends up in CP.

Re: A Tor of the Dark Web

#186

Post by poft » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 4:18 PM UTC

gws wrote: post #178

poft wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a pedophile and I use Tor. I use it not to share pictures nor commit crimes but to do what you say is worse: talk to other pedophiles. Tor permits us a safe support forum. fatbird says: Whether or not they exist anyway, it seems obvious to me that a supportive peer group is going to increase their effectiveness at predation. Quite the opposite in fact. Dialogue among pedophiles facilitates two things that you mi…

In your opinion what is the overall impact on children safety of something like Tor? Positive, negative or neutral? I realize this is tough to answer.

Keep in mind when asking me that question that I probably have a different idea than you of what "children safety" means (for example: we probably believe different reasons for why it's best for all concerned if pedophiles avoid breaking the law). But for nearly all definitions, you'd rather have us acting as we'd like to envision ourselves than acting as society envisions us, and having a community enables the creation of that self image and sense of what it means to be ethical. We're not going to go away, and we're far more numerous than most realize, so you might as well let us figure out how to be good people. That can only happen through dialogue, and for the time being that dialogue is only possible anonymously.

Also, it may sound self serving of me to say this, but the risk of pedophiles on the Internet is waaaay overblown. The behavior most of society considers sexual abuse is far more likely to be from a child's caretakers than some stranger on the Internet. And child pornography, from what I understand (and I really am not stupid enough to download it myself, even with Tor), is mostly the same old images again and again.

Re: A Tor of the Dark Web

#187

Post by throwaway_24680 » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 4:54 PM UTC

poft wrote: post #186

gws wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your opinion what is the overall impact on children safety of something like Tor? Positive, negative or neutral? I realize this is tough to answer.

Keep in mind when asking me that question that I probably have a different idea than you of what "children safety" means (for example: we probably believe different reasons for why it's best for all concerned if pedophiles avoid breaking the law). But for nearly all definitions, you'd rather have us acting as we'd like to envision ourselves than acting as society envisions us, and having a community enables the creat…

> "but the risk of pedophiles on the Internet is waaaay overblown"

You are correct that a child's caretaker is often the culprit.

However, you are dead wrong on Internet pedophiles being overblown. It's quite the opposite. Post a Craigslist or Backpage ad saying you're a 12 year old who wants to meet a mature older man to have sex, and watch the replies pile in from every direction. Or, enter any chat room saying you're a teenage girl and count the seconds until an adult male begins flirting. Or, see how many friend requests and direct messages underage girls get from adult strangers on Facebook.

There's a reason why convicted sex offenders in the US are not allowed to have access to a computer (yes, law enforcement searches their home twice monthly).

Re: A Tor of the Dark Web

#188

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 5:13 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #157

noonespecial wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the proof that its working. As you say, when the child molesters are really and truly safe to speak their minds, everyone is. These people would exist anyway. Sometimes humanity sucks. Interesting though, TOR allowed you to study them in a way you would never have been able to otherwise. It merely disgusted you, but it could be a valuable resource to someone who studies how people break and thinks about what m…

> As you say, when the child molesters are really and truly safe to speak their minds, everyone is. Not the most attractive canary I could possibly imagine.

[deleted]

Re: A Tor of the Dark Web

#189

Post by throwaway_24680 » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 5:14 PM UTC

marvin wrote: post #173

poft wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes.

...and this is a perfect example of why anonymity on the internet is a good thing which has inherent value. Now we've learned something we wouldn't have otherwise. It's not like people with these paraphelias show up for interviews with the newspaper.

That's dangerous reasoning.

Your comment suggests there is greater value in learning from a pedophile while he is out there victimizing children than there is learning from him behind bars.

There are plenty of interviews of convicted pedophiles that help the public understand their point of view (e.g. http://www.putlocker.com/file/19CQ36KXSUTC0408# - many more in scientific journals, less sensationalized than TV)

Re: A Tor of the Dark Web

#190

Post by radu_floricica » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 6:42 PM UTC

fatbird wrote: post #49

noonespecial wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the proof that its working. As you say, when the child molesters are really and truly safe to speak their minds, everyone is. These people would exist anyway. Sometimes humanity sucks. Interesting though, TOR allowed you to study them in a way you would never have been able to otherwise. It merely disgusted you, but it could be a valuable resource to someone who studies how people break and thinks about what m…

Whether or not they exist anyway, it seems obvious to me that a supportive peer group is going to increase their effectiveness at predation. Perhaps they talk about it so much that they don't get around to doing it--studies on violent pornography and child pornography sometimes find that viewers use them as a safe outlet to actually doing it themselves. But that's a huge gamble. At present, TOR is simply enabling chi…

Maybe not.

Imagine a perfect world. Not a world in which everybody is perfect, that would be boring, but a world in which institutions really function. In such a world you'd expect to find this kind of forums, find them anonymously and relatively easy. They'd be up and running for years. And they'd be fully staffed by people well-versed in finding and helping pedophiles (cops, psychiatrists etc).

You can't check people at birth and see if they have criminal tendencies. It's unethical (and impractical) to watch everybody all the time. What you can do is make sure there are places where they'll gravitate naturally towards, and control them for your benefit.

The right way to dismantle a pedophile network is to arrest everybody, steal their online identities and keep on posting the materials they already have. Otherwise you're just playing whack-a-mole.