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A Research Preview of Codex

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Re: A Research Preview of Codex

#211

Post by johnjwang »

criddell wrote: post #112
johnjwang wrote: post #80

Some engineers on my team at Assembled and I have been a part of the alpha test of Codex, and I'll say it's been quite impressive. We’ve long used local agents like Cursor and Claude Code, so we didn’t expect too much. But Codex shines in a few areas: Parallel task execution: You can batch dozens of small edits (refactors, tests, boilerplate) and run them concurrently without context juggling. It's super nice to run…

If you aren't hiring junior engineers to do these kinds of things, where do you think the senior engineers you need in the future will come from? My kid recently graduated from a very good school with a degree in computer science and what she's told me about the job market is scary. It seems that, relatively speaking, there's a lot of postings for senior engineers and very little for new grads. My employer has hired…

To be clear, we still hire engineers who are early in their careers (and we've found them to be some of the best folks on our team).

All the same principles apply as before: smart, driven, high ownership engineers make a huge difference to a company's success, and I find that the trend is even stronger now than before because of all the tools that these early career engineers have access to. Many of the folks we've hired have been able to spin up on our codebase much faster than in the past.

We're mainly helping them develop taste for what good code / good practices look like.

Re: A Research Preview of Codex

#212

Post by whyowhy3484939 »

awestroke wrote: post #50
skovati wrote: post #40

I'm curious how many ICs are truly excited about these advancements in coding agents. It seems to me the general trend is we become more like PMs managing agents and reviewing PRs, all for the sake of productivity gains. I imagine many engineers are like myself in that they got into programming because they liked tinkering and hacking and implementation details, all of which are likely to be abstracted over in this n…

At the end of the day, it's your job to deliver value. If a tool allows you to deliver more faster, without sacrificing quality, it's your responsibility to use that tool. You'll just have to make sure you can fully take responsibility for the end deliverables. And these tools are not only useful for writing the final code

It's actually not. My job description does not say "deliver value" and nobody talks about my work like that so I'm not quite sure what to make of that.

> without sacrificing quality

Right..

> it's your responsibility to use that tool

Again, it's actually not. It's my responsibility to do my job, not to make my boss' - or his boss' - car nicer. I know that's what we all know will create "job security" but let's not conflate these things. My job is to do my end of the bargain. My boss' job is paying me for doing that. If he deems it necessary to force me to use AI bullshit, I will of course, but it is definitely not my responsibility to do so autonomously.

Re: A Research Preview of Codex

#213

Post by evantbyrne »

davedx wrote: post #62
skovati wrote: post #40

I'm curious how many ICs are truly excited about these advancements in coding agents. It seems to me the general trend is we become more like PMs managing agents and reviewing PRs, all for the sake of productivity gains. I imagine many engineers are like myself in that they got into programming because they liked tinkering and hacking and implementation details, all of which are likely to be abstracted over in this n…

I think the death of our craft is around the corner. It doesn't fill me with joy.

Software engineering requires a fair amount of intelligence, so if these tools ever get to replacement levels of quality then it's not just developers that will be out of jobs. ARC-AGI-2, the countless anecdotes from professionals I've seen across the industry, and personal experience all very clearly point to a significant gap between the tools that exist today and general intelligence. I would recommend keeping an eye on improvements just because of the sheer capital investments going into it, but I won't be losing any sleep waiting for the rapture.

Re: A Research Preview of Codex

#214

Post by criddell »

johnjwang wrote: post #211
criddell wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you aren't hiring junior engineers to do these kinds of things, where do you think the senior engineers you need in the future will come from? My kid recently graduated from a very good school with a degree in computer science and what she's told me about the job market is scary. It seems that, relatively speaking, there's a lot of postings for senior engineers and very little for new grads. My employer has hired…

To be clear, we still hire engineers who are early in their careers (and we've found them to be some of the best folks on our team). All the same principles apply as before: smart, driven, high ownership engineers make a huge difference to a company's success, and I find that the trend is even stronger now than before because of all the tools that these early career engineers have access to. Many of the folks we've h…

> we still hire engineers who are early in their careers

That's really great to hear.

Your experience that a new engineer equipped with modern tools is more effective and productive than in the past is important to highlight. It makes total sense.

Re: A Research Preview of Codex

#215

Post by dgb23 »

criddell wrote: post #112
johnjwang wrote: post #80

Some engineers on my team at Assembled and I have been a part of the alpha test of Codex, and I'll say it's been quite impressive. We’ve long used local agents like Cursor and Claude Code, so we didn’t expect too much. But Codex shines in a few areas: Parallel task execution: You can batch dozens of small edits (refactors, tests, boilerplate) and run them concurrently without context juggling. It's super nice to run…

If you aren't hiring junior engineers to do these kinds of things, where do you think the senior engineers you need in the future will come from? My kid recently graduated from a very good school with a degree in computer science and what she's told me about the job market is scary. It seems that, relatively speaking, there's a lot of postings for senior engineers and very little for new grads. My employer has hired…

AI might play a role here. But there's also a lot of economic uncertainty.

It's not long ago when the correction of the tech job market started, because it got blown up during and after covid. The geopolitical situation is very unstable.

I also think there is way too much FUD around AI, including coding assistants, than necessary. Typically coming either from people who want to sell it or want to get in on the hype.

Things are shifting and moving, which creates uncertainty. But it also opens new doors. Maybe it's a time for risk takers, the curious, the daring. Small businesses and new kinds of services might rise from this, like web development came out of the internet revolution. To me, it seems like things are opening up and not closing down.

Besides that, I bet there are more people today who write, read or otherwise deal directly with assembly code than ever before, even though we had higher level languages for many decades.

As for the job market specifically: SWE and CS (adjacent) jobs are still among the fastest growing, coming up in all kinds of lists.

Re: A Research Preview of Codex

#216

Post by ikiris »

criddell wrote: post #112
johnjwang wrote: post #80

Some engineers on my team at Assembled and I have been a part of the alpha test of Codex, and I'll say it's been quite impressive. We’ve long used local agents like Cursor and Claude Code, so we didn’t expect too much. But Codex shines in a few areas: Parallel task execution: You can batch dozens of small edits (refactors, tests, boilerplate) and run them concurrently without context juggling. It's super nice to run…

If you aren't hiring junior engineers to do these kinds of things, where do you think the senior engineers you need in the future will come from? My kid recently graduated from a very good school with a degree in computer science and what she's told me about the job market is scary. It seems that, relatively speaking, there's a lot of postings for senior engineers and very little for new grads. My employer has hired…

Much like everything in the economy currently, externalities are to be shouldered by "others" and if there is no "other" in aggregate, well, it's not our problem. Yet.

Re: A Research Preview of Codex

#217

Post by startupsfail »

johnjwang wrote: post #211
criddell wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you aren't hiring junior engineers to do these kinds of things, where do you think the senior engineers you need in the future will come from? My kid recently graduated from a very good school with a degree in computer science and what she's told me about the job market is scary. It seems that, relatively speaking, there's a lot of postings for senior engineers and very little for new grads. My employer has hired…

To be clear, we still hire engineers who are early in their careers (and we've found them to be some of the best folks on our team). All the same principles apply as before: smart, driven, high ownership engineers make a huge difference to a company's success, and I find that the trend is even stronger now than before because of all the tools that these early career engineers have access to. Many of the folks we've h…

More recent models are not without drive and are not stupid either.

There’s still quite a bit of a gap in terms of trust.

Re: A Research Preview of Codex

#218

Post by ionwake »

mr_north_london wrote: post #199
ionwake wrote: post #197

Im sorry if Im being silly, but I have paid for the Pro version, $200 a month, everytime I click on Try Codex, it takes me to a pricing page with the "Team Plan" https://chatgpt.com/codex#pricing . Is this still rolling out? I dont need the team plan too do I? I have been using openAI products for years now and I am keen to try but I have no idea what I am doing wrong.

It's still rolling out

Thx for the reply, Im in london too ( atm )

Re: A Research Preview of Codex

#219

Post by throwaway314155 »

ionwake wrote: post #197

Im sorry if Im being silly, but I have paid for the Pro version, $200 a month, everytime I click on Try Codex, it takes me to a pricing page with the "Team Plan" https://chatgpt.com/codex#pricing . Is this still rolling out? I dont need the team plan too do I? I have been using openAI products for years now and I am keen to try but I have no idea what I am doing wrong.

They do this with every major release. Never going to understand why.

Re: A Research Preview of Codex

#220

Post by [deleted] »

RhysabOweyn wrote: post #178

I believe that code from one of these things will eventually cause a disaster affecting the capital owners. Then all of a sudden you will need a PE license, ABET degree, 5 years working experience, etc. to call yourself a software engineer. It would not even be historically unique. Charlatans are the reason that lawyers, medical doctors, and civil engineers have to go through lots of education, exams, and vocational…

[deleted]
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