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Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

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421–430 of 465 posts

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#421
post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

With a big site like HN I don't know how you can control it. However, in a more focused site, the answer would be hands-on involvement. It doesn't take that much involvement, just a little.

The thing about systems is that we tend to think of them as if people are not a part of them. But people are a part of them.

One thought I would suggest is that it might be worth giving people with very high karma (maybe high enough that only a few people have this) an ability to post highlighted reprimands, and an automatic banning of a user if he or she gets more than, say, 5 of these in a month. These could then be reviewed of necessary.

One thing I would think about is that rather than having a system where computers try to control people, have a system which empowers the community leaders to set standards of interaction.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#422
post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your experiment matches Dan Ariely's experiment very well. In his book, "Predictably Irrational" when people are made to remember the ten commandments or even the thought of ten commandments, or any such honesty pledge, their dishonesty level drops drastically. One of these days, I'm going to make a chapterwise summary of that book so that I can remember the experiments and behaviours at a glance.

There was someone who knew that before Dan Ariely: every priest of the past two thousand years, who led a congregation on daily prayers or confession.

The priests did not write research papers and publish it in peer-reviewed journals. Neither did they bother with controls in experiments. So please don't be snarky.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't Digg killed by "power users" with all the power? I worry this might happen here too.

I don't think so. HN has been hell banning for some time, often quite unjustly, but the general quality hasn't been affected by it.

Are you sure? I can see a correlation between the rise of hell banning and the decline in general quality.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#424
post #365
post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to resubmit an idea that has been brought up before (it's not mine- it may be yours, in fact): two buttons for voting. One for agreement/disagreement and one as a rating specifically for quality of the comment. In the "old days," there was more-or-less agreement that the vote was for quality of comment -- feedback about the value of the participant to the community -- and agreement/disagreement was voiced (…

Why not make the upward facing arrow be text like "good quality" or "useful" or "thoughtful"?

Also remove the downvote button and replace it with "flag this comment"

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#425
post #66

I was going to post the same thing. I felt physically sick reading some of the vile comments to the makr.io team. They took it with a smile, and I applaud them for it, but that stuff hurts. I've noted a substantial drop in show HN posts, which I love, over the past weeks and an increase in bullshit media sensationalism :"twitter says : drop dead". Reasons? I say a rise in celebrity users and those seeking to impress…

You think the problem with celebrity users will be solved by having pg take a bigger role?

I think the way to remove the low-value posts would be to ban all the self-promoting bloggers; daringfireball, 37signals, 42floors, asmartbear... we don't seem to get these problematic stories either from "proper" news sites (even techcrunch et al) or from bloggers unrelated to YC who don't post here regularly. Of course, that would be a dramatic change to the character of HN, and I suspect pg himself would end up on the wrong side of such an exclude list.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#426

Can someone provide an example of an online community that has an appropriately positive attitude? Hacker News is the most civil, useful and intelligent conversation on the internet, period. HN is easily two standard deviations less cruel or petty than any other discussion site you could name. The rest of the internet makes us look like Miss Manners. I'm sorry that people weren't supportive of your personal projects,…

I actually find 4chan to be a very good source of constructive feedback. The ratio of constructive to unconstructive comments is much worse, but the unconstructive comments tend to be very obviously so, and the anonymity and general culture make it easy to brush them aside without much thought.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But with a clear cut system like the one mentioned above, why shouldn't new members get to downvote as well? The system would clearly convey its intended usage, and in the process bring new members up to speed faster. If you still want to impose a restriction, it definitely shouldn't be karma based. I find it a bit counter-intuitive. [Assume maximum evil] You're going to allow someone to downvote others based on how…

"New" members shouldn't downvote because they might not downvote the right things, or for the right reasons. I do not consider lurkers "new members." I also disagree with the idea of karma-driven downvote system. However, I wrote the above with the assumption that those who can downvote know HN values and enforce them. As you pointed out, yes the karma-downvote thing doesn't quite accomplish it's goal (assuming the g…

Ah yes. You've got a good point. I find it confusing on how to allow downvotes then. Is age of the account a fair measure? Then what about people who've been here without registering, or people who actually have good discretion.

Maybe enforce a stealth downvote. This would be a case where the downvote button is visible but you use heuristics and probabilistic models to determine to whether actually accept the guys' vote or not, and if yes, what weight to assign it.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#428
post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why such a phenomenon occurs, when five of the commandments have nothing to do with morality. Also, in the Army we had the Warrior's Ethos, the Army Values, the Soldier's Creed, and the Creed of the Non-Commissioned Officer crammed down our throats daily. While are some awesome people in the Military, I've run into just as many dishonorable people as I have in the general population.

You are missing a control, so you can't really judge. Maybe it would have been a stinking, fetid den of iniquity and moral puss had they not. Or, more likely, they might be somewhat worse, for some reasonable definition of somewhat.

How is it inaccurate to state that the morality of military members was the same as the general population, but not inaccurate to suggest that only degenerates who need constant supervision join the military in the first place?

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#429
post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so. HN has been hell banning for some time, often quite unjustly, but the general quality hasn't been affected by it.

Are you sure? I can see a correlation between the rise of hell banning and the decline in general quality.

While it is often unjust, it is often extremely just also. Personally, I don't know if the tone has really changed. I do know that I see less demonstrations of work done on the front page. That's a shame :(

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#430
For some reason, I personally feel bad about this. Being a newer member, I feel like I'm somehow contributing to Steve's hatred of hacker news. I am entrepreneurial and love seeing new projects being released, but I didn't know about HN until I moved to San Francisco a year ago.

Hopefully I help make this place better instead of worse, Sorry Steve

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