Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News.. • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#371

Post by sandee » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 12:18 AM UTC

pg wrote: post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

Another technique could be to split the ranking into two modes, a general mode and a power mode(where rules are much strict and biased towards a filtered set of core community users). Using the power mode, readers would view the community core (who defines the site ethos) but may not be able to interact (vote,comment and submission not appearing here without upvote from core members).

Such an approach should be taken with a goal to gradually adhere the general user behavior towards the community core. May be add a tab for this.

The thinking is based on the premise that the site still has a lot of its core users and community values have not changed over time.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#372

Post by moultano » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 12:23 AM UTC

harmon_michael wrote: post #362

moultano wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you could attack this directly. Put a field the profile form for "something I've made." Don't allow anyone without an entry there to vote. Half of the benefit would be from filtering out people who aren't really invested in the community. The other half would be from making people think about the magnitude of their own contributions before they criticize someone elses.

I usually just watch and read the articles but I've been wanting to get more involved for a while. I know I have a future doing the kinds of things you guys have done, and someday very soon I hope that I will. By keeping people like me who haven't yet accomplished anything out, you would be denying a real chance at digital mentorship. I know how much I've learned and how grateful I am for having the chance to learn f…

You would still be able to comment and submit. Your voice would still be there. This would just test the hypothesis that people who have put themselves out there are more sympathetic to other people who have put themselves out there.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#373

Post by ephekt » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 12:29 AM UTC

HN starts with the elites. Elites make HN popular. Others join HN to be elite by proximity (or invested in). Elites leave.

This is the exact nature of an internet community that is successful. Thank god we (kind of) still have IRC.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#374

Post by true_religion » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 12:33 AM UTC

niels_olson wrote: post #140

pg wrote: post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

I posted a friend's start-up here (she wants traction), and her effort was summarily eviscerated. But not until after I'd already sent her a link to the thread. I feel terrible about that now. I think nasty comments tied with a product or site announcement might be a low-of-lows to look for? Or at least finding site announcements might be easier than finding "all nasty comments" and then evaluate that subset first?

I see exactly one comment on your friends post and its rational.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#375

Post by wvenable » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 12:36 AM UTC

pg wrote: post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

I would like to see agree/disagree buttons -- no other voting site has this but I think it would solve the disagree=downvote / agree=upvote problem that Hacker News and Reddit have. By separating out the two options, you might get people more to upvote good comments and downvote poor comments.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#376

Post by samstave » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 12:45 AM UTC

pg wrote: post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

Pg: here is an idea I have been keeping inside me for over a decade:

User-account reputation karma.

Based on the voting system that slash of had, but on the character of the account rather than the comment the account made. Here is how it works:

You have your comment up down arrows, then username, then a drop down to mark the character of the account at the time they made the post.

So you could see a comment by samstave and upvote/downvote it, and then also tag my character as [insightful|helpful|abrrasive|troll] etc (whatever the tags are you want to make)

These tags affect the overall account. So if I were tagged by a ton of people as a troll account the more troll votes I get, the worse my account experience is... And eventually too many could lead to hellban.

On the other end, having a very high positive account character would make for a better experience - see stories esrlier, be able to affect other accounts in some way etc. or just a leader board of who is the most technical, helpful, insightful, innovative etc...

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#377

Post by phaus » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 12:46 AM UTC

sigkill wrote: post #298

tripzilch wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having used to be mod/admin on a rather busy and strife-filled SMF-forum the past 6-7 years, I can confirm that this works surprisingly well. I say "surprisingly" because, like a lot of tech hackers, I often think about a technical solution before I think about the simple social one. But I've noticed time and time again just how much effect the simplest changes in user-interface can have on the entire "mood" of a com…

Your experiment matches Dan Ariely's experiment very well. In his book, "Predictably Irrational" when people are made to remember the ten commandments or even the thought of ten commandments, or any such honesty pledge, their dishonesty level drops drastically. One of these days, I'm going to make a chapterwise summary of that book so that I can remember the experiments and behaviours at a glance.

I wonder why such a phenomenon occurs, when five of the commandments have nothing to do with morality.

Also, in the Army we had the Warrior's Ethos, the Army Values, the Soldier's Creed, and the Creed of the Non-Commissioned Officer crammed down our throats daily. While are some awesome people in the Military, I've run into just as many dishonorable people as I have in the general population.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#378

Post by MrMan » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 1:13 AM UTC

grandalf wrote: post #186

I think it's part of a larger trend in startups. When there is no startup boom, people who do startups do them b/c they love building things. When there is a boom, ambitious people do startups b/c it is part of their calculation of how to achieve power and wealth, the competition for which is a zero sum game. The true visionaries who build amazing products and companies are not the kind of people who, in the midst of…

Man, well done. I am too exhausted by my cynicism about the startup world to make such posts now. But it is very important to remember that in the current environment cynicism equals knowledge. Naivete and idealism are mostly put-on. Investors need this greed-based faux idealism to attract young talented people. I think that people bemoaning the declining "quality" of members of the HN community would be even more perturbed if HN lost any of it's potency as a platform for hyping portfolio companies owned by the investing class.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#379

Post by jim_lawless » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 1:16 AM UTC

pg wrote: post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

pg - I'm curious if you've ever given thought to the idea of exposing a filter or ranking Domain Specific Language to us ... something that we could enter in a spot in our user-profile ... so that we could either choose the current ranking algorithm or could write our own.

It seems that HN may be different things to different people, so perhaps allowing the presentation to be customized might put people at ease?

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#380

Post by stfu » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 1:16 AM UTC

sachitgupta wrote: post #256

pg wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, I'll try that too.

As an example, Tim Ferris has this right above the comment submission box (getting to users right when they're about to take an action): Comment Rules: Remember what Fonzie was like? Cool. That’s how we’re gonna be — cool. Critical is fine, but if you’re rude, we’ll delete your stuff. Please do not put your URL in the comment text and please use your PERSONAL name or initials and not your business name, as the latter…

How about just adding a flagging option for each comment and making the flagging weight related to the karma of the account. Therefore the opinion of people who have in the past made high quality contributions are weighted stronger than those of the others. And this is something I am suggesting with an almost pathetic karma...