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In the US, a rotating detonation rocket engine takes flight

arstechnica.com

41–50 of 77 posts

Re: In the US, a rotating detonation rocket engine takes flight

#41

> hypersonic This is a meaningless term. There's just varying degrees supersonic. "hyper" implies a completely different thing. EDIT: apparently the military has bastardized the term

It's not a new term, and it exists because there are unique practical engineering problems associated with high mach numbers so having a term for this regime is useful even if the distinction seems arbitrary from a pure theoretically perspective.

Re: In the US, a rotating detonation rocket engine takes flight

#42
post #24
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my understanding, it's more that the explosion phase of a detonation is more fuel-efficient than the burning phase, but can't last very long under normal circumstances because the flame front is moving so fast-- This is a trick to continue fueling the explosion to sustain it over an indefinite time period. Think about it in terms of an old-fashioned gunpowder line fuse: If you lay it out in a ring and have some…

What i've never understood is how detonation can be more efficient than deflagration. What does that mean? Both types of engine take a mix of fuel and oxidiser and turn it into hot combustion products. The hot combustion products then expand through a nozzle to produce thrust. How is that process different between the two? Does a deflagration engine leave some fuel unburnt, that a detonation engine burns? Does the co…

[deleted]

Re: In the US, a rotating detonation rocket engine takes flight

#43
post #24
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my understanding, it's more that the explosion phase of a detonation is more fuel-efficient than the burning phase, but can't last very long under normal circumstances because the flame front is moving so fast-- This is a trick to continue fueling the explosion to sustain it over an indefinite time period. Think about it in terms of an old-fashioned gunpowder line fuse: If you lay it out in a ring and have some…

What i've never understood is how detonation can be more efficient than deflagration. What does that mean? Both types of engine take a mix of fuel and oxidiser and turn it into hot combustion products. The hot combustion products then expand through a nozzle to produce thrust. How is that process different between the two? Does a deflagration engine leave some fuel unburnt, that a detonation engine burns? Does the co…

Just think in terms of the P-V diagram, you want the pressure increase curve to be as vertical as possible to maximize the area enclosed by the cycle

Re: In the US, a rotating detonation rocket engine takes flight

#44
post #37

From the article: "In contrast to a traditional rocket engine, in which a highly pressurized propellant and an oxidizer are injected into a combustion chamber where they burn and produce an energetic exhaust plume, a rotating detonation engine is different in that a wave of detonation travels around a circular channel. This is sustained by the injection of fuel and oxidizer and produces a shockwave that travels outwa…

Basically it's a turbine engine but the rotating blades are replaced with orbiting shockwaves instead.

That makes no sense at all. How do you think a turbine engine works?

Re: In the US, a rotating detonation rocket engine takes flight

#45
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those descriptions are actually both correct, but one is describing the elephant's trunk and another the elephant's ear.

To be a bit more clear, the detonation is racing around a circular track in one plane, but the net thrust is in the direction perpendicular to that plane. Fuel and oxidiser are continuously pumped in all along the track, dropping to ~0 after a detonation and rising afterwards until the detonation front arrives again. Since you don't have to pump into a continual high pressure deflagration like in a conventional rocke…

By "chock" do you mean "impact"? In English a chock is a rubber wedge you put under a wheel to keep it from rolling, or various similar objects, or the act of using one to keep something from moving: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/chock

Re: In the US, a rotating detonation rocket engine takes flight

#46
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What i've never understood is how detonation can be more efficient than deflagration. What does that mean? Both types of engine take a mix of fuel and oxidiser and turn it into hot combustion products. The hot combustion products then expand through a nozzle to produce thrust. How is that process different between the two? Does a deflagration engine leave some fuel unburnt, that a detonation engine burns? Does the co…

The energy produced by the combustion is the same but different fractions of it are converted into work. Just like efficiency differences in other types of heat engine.

η = 1 - ( T_c / T_h )

Carnot-Efficiency is the theoretical limit of the cycle’s ability to get work out of the thermal energy where T_c is the exhaust (coldest) temperature after expansion and T_h the hottest temperature (before expansion). Temperatures given in K (Kelvin), so 100% if you manage to get T_c to absolute zero temperature.

Re: In the US, a rotating detonation rocket engine takes flight

#47
post #19

Still trying to wrap my head around this. Doesn’t this cause insane stresses with basically all explosions being off axis? Or are there multiple sets of explosions moving at same the on opposites sides?

The main drawback is that RDEs need substantially stronger structure to smooth out the forces. It's still worth it, the force of the detonation (it's not separate explosions, it's a single continuous detonation front moving in a circular channel) is small enough to be containable. There have been tests with multiple detonation fronts, but controlling them is much harder. It's very hard to have them go around the chan…

Plus if the rocket carries a warhead it doesn’t burn for long.

Re: In the US, a rotating detonation rocket engine takes flight

#48
post #39
post #11

>Sassie Duggleby and her husband, Andrew Duggleby, founded Venus Aerospace nearly five years ago with the long-term goal of developing powerful rotating detonation engines and building a hypersonic aircraft that could carry perhaps a dozen passengers and travel at astonishingly fast speeds worldwide. As an engineering project it sounds really cool, but is the application really commercial travel? I would have thought…

It's a smokescreen for hypersonic missile development. It's a common tactic. I knew someone who worked on a novel satellite surveillance system. Their pitch was that it would allow them to engage in futures trading because the resolution of their satellites would allow unique insights into global trade for certain markets using realtime optical imaging. The guy was former Lockheed. One night at dinner I told him to c…

>Their pitch was that it would allow them to engage in futures trading because the resolution of their satellites would allow unique insights into global trade for certain markets using realtime optical imaging.

I mean, that pitch is an accurate claim if the insights in mind are "We just told the pentagon to blow up these pixels". That tends to affect global trade and futures markets.

Re: In the US, a rotating detonation rocket engine takes flight

#49
post #11

>Sassie Duggleby and her husband, Andrew Duggleby, founded Venus Aerospace nearly five years ago with the long-term goal of developing powerful rotating detonation engines and building a hypersonic aircraft that could carry perhaps a dozen passengers and travel at astonishingly fast speeds worldwide. As an engineering project it sounds really cool, but is the application really commercial travel? I would have thought…

The amount of times the word "hypersonics" was mentioned should be pretty clear sign they are aiming for DOD money.

Re: In the US, a rotating detonation rocket engine takes flight

#50

> hypersonic This is a meaningless term. There's just varying degrees supersonic. "hyper" implies a completely different thing. EDIT: apparently the military has bastardized the term

It's not a new term, and it exists because there are unique practical engineering problems associated with high mach numbers so having a term for this regime is useful even if the distinction seems arbitrary from a pure theoretically perspective.

Sure, but "hyper"? Is there any reason other than that it sounds cooler than "super"?

What are we going to do when we hit mach 11, start talking about "hyperhypersonic"? "superhypersonic"?

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