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Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

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Re: Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

#531

Post by wnc3141 »

cobertos wrote: post #101
dreamcompiler wrote: post #93

Airbnb made the same mistake Google did: They screwed up their core service. I used to be a steady ABB customer but now hotels are almost always cheaper, offer better service, and are more predictable. Not to mention that hotel websites are typically easier to navigate and contain a lot less React-sludge that makes every click take forever to respond.

I had this experience too. Booked on AirBnb with someone who was about the same price as the hotels. Turns out the hosts were just employees of some letting company. They wanted photo ID, a deposit, and sign a second contract in a _separate website_, which I declined. Contacting AirBnb support they said this was fully allowed and I should have read the description harder. I did get a full refund but was told it was o…

any chance this was the "sonder" brand? They have weirdly invasive identity requirements.

Re: Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

#532

Post by wnc3141 »

pembrook wrote: post #267

Airbnb is a giant example of what happens when you go too far into thinking you can solve real world issues with software UI. Or run a hospitality business without doing any real hospitality. Yes, a marketplace is a dream business from a profitability perspective, but it’s too easy to forget the marketplace is not the actual product that people come to the marketplace for. It doesn’t matter if you have 5000 overpaid…

I think we're come to declining marginal gains of software driven businesses when the real competitive advantage comes from real product and operations.

Re: Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

#533

Post by jen729w »

azalemeth wrote: post #223
jen729w wrote: post #159

> Chesky figured that Airbnb’s experience in attractively displaying homes, vetting hosts, and responding to crises could make it more trustworthy than competitors and therefore the go-to option for virtually anything. Online reviews are totally broken. I recently spent a week at an Airbnb in the Gold Coast, Australia. The property was rated 5* but was tired and worn. The photos must have been 5 years old before a so…

At least he was apologetic about the shitty toilet. The last time I ever directly gave Airbnb money the host accused my female work colleague of blocking the toilet with menstrual products and charged us 400CAD for a plumber to "fix" it. My colleague was incensed -- she angrily stated that the chronology was wrong, demonstrated that no aforesaid items were in her possession, but the host didn't believe it. We ended u…

> At least he was apologetic about the shitty toilet.

I never said that! He was not.

Re: Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

#534

Post by wnc3141 »

nithril wrote: post #360
janosett wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anywhere you could build a hotel you could also build more housing, so they pose the same issue. There is necessarily some tension between using space for permanent housing and using it for tourism / short term stays. Tourism often keeps a city's economy healthy, and having short term stays is important for those visiting even for non-tourism reasons (e.g. in town to visit family, for work, etc). The housing issue is…

> Tourism often keeps a city's economy healthy I would not say "healthy", there is many situation where it is wealthy but not really healthy

I think what's at play here is the unusually palpable crowding out effects of tourism compared to any other industry. That is, when local stores get replaced by tourism shops, Landmarks etc. become more important than everyday amenities and the town becomes a sort of museum of itself.

Of course tourism can pipe in money and help a place invest in high quality services and amentaties compared to catering to industry.

However tourism often has a tremendous income distribution problem (see Hawaii or Colorado living conditions of service workers). This remains a fundamentally political problem to guarantee income distribution through living wage guarantees etc.

Re: Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

#535

Post by wnc3141 »

janosett wrote: post #264
hansmayer wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, how lovely it is so convenient for you, e.g. the "silent majority" while the residents of those cities foot the direct and indirect bill from reduced availability of the real-estate and the ever-increasing costs.

Anywhere you could build a hotel you could also build more housing, so they pose the same issue. There is necessarily some tension between using space for permanent housing and using it for tourism / short term stays. Tourism often keeps a city's economy healthy, and having short term stays is important for those visiting even for non-tourism reasons (e.g. in town to visit family, for work, etc). The housing issue is…

Ignoring some nuances, I see what you're saying-- At least in the long run.

The issue is however in the short run, air BNB encourages taking existing rentals out of the market to turn into short term rentals. The effect is driving long term rental prices toward the short term price level supported by income level of the visitors. (untenable for most residents).

The conversation of new units refers to a decades long process dependent on credit cycles and investment interest.

Re: Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

#536

Post by casenmgreen »

ranguna wrote: post #285
casenmgreen wrote: post #280

I'm a digital nomad. One luggage, no permanent home, been fifteen years. I used to use AirBnB all the time. They gradually become more and more, well, "large company". I used to still look at AirBnB (until very recently, when one of the founders joined DOGE), but I saw that their fee continually rose over time, and became like 10% or 15%, and there's in many places (Paris, Amsterdam, New York, London...) no meaningfu…

What do you use instead?

A mixture of approaches.

Sometimes, places I've been to before, where the owners and I know each other.

Another approach is to look on AirBnB and if there is anything, use the images n reverse image search to find the listing on other sites - and often places are on other sites.

Other times, a more general search for the location of interest and see what's there which is simply not on AirBnB, and negotiate discount for long stay.

For the now considerable number of cities where AirBnB has been or has effectively been banned by State, you have to use these approaches anyway - that's how I got into Paris.

Re: Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

#537

Post by keiferski »

BLenkomo wrote: post #271
pembrook wrote: post #267

Airbnb is a giant example of what happens when you go too far into thinking you can solve real world issues with software UI. Or run a hospitality business without doing any real hospitality. Yes, a marketplace is a dream business from a profitability perspective, but it’s too easy to forget the marketplace is not the actual product that people come to the marketplace for. It doesn’t matter if you have 5000 overpaid…

I don't think anyone at AirBnB wanted to solve a real world issue. They wanted to disrupt a market, same as uber, and did this by circumventing laws and breaking everything. There is a reason why we have zoning laws: To protect housing for people. AirBnB broke this. Took my city munich / germany years in curt to get the data from AirBnB. While Covid, plenty of reports came up how suddenly good flats in good locations…

Taxis were a nightmare to use before Uber; and they often weren’t available at all.

The whole concept of taxi medallions is also extreme market manipulation with basically no benefit to the average consumer, which makes it doubly odd that someone would consider them somehow more ethical or less manipulative.

Re: Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

#538

Post by lm28469 »

fasthands9 wrote: post #124
dreamcompiler wrote: post #93

Airbnb made the same mistake Google did: They screwed up their core service. I used to be a steady ABB customer but now hotels are almost always cheaper, offer better service, and are more predictable. Not to mention that hotel websites are typically easier to navigate and contain a lot less React-sludge that makes every click take forever to respond.

I disagree. In the long run there was never a way for individual hosts to compete with hotels on price. Hotels have economy of scale so of course they are going to be better bang for the buck in places where both are options. I think airbnb is still the better option in many situations - such as when you are willing to pay a premium to be in nature or you going on vacation with 6+ people. I don't really see how bette…

> I disagree. In the long run there was never a way for individual hosts to compete with hotels on price. Hotels have economy of scale so of course they are going to be better bang for the buck in places where both are options.

Reminder that airbnb was supposed to be about renting your place when you were out of town, not buying 5 buildings to become an hotel chain yourself...

At least hotels don't ask you to clean the dishes, switch of the fridge and do the laundry before you leave

Re: Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

#539

Post by BLenkomo »

fkyoureadthedoc wrote: post #380
BLenkomo wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone at AirBnB wanted to solve a real world issue. They wanted to disrupt a market, same as uber, and did this by circumventing laws and breaking everything. There is a reason why we have zoning laws: To protect housing for people. AirBnB broke this. Took my city munich / germany years in curt to get the data from AirBnB. While Covid, plenty of reports came up how suddenly good flats in good locations…

> There is a reason why we have zoning laws: To protect housing for people. Really? In practice it looks more like zoning laws exist so NIMBYs can increase their property value and keep black people away.

I don't know what you mean referencing black people.

The zoning laws i mean are: commercial vs. non commercial vs. heavy industry (loud, safety requirements).

Re: Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

#540

Post by BLenkomo »

keiferski wrote: post #537
BLenkomo wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone at AirBnB wanted to solve a real world issue. They wanted to disrupt a market, same as uber, and did this by circumventing laws and breaking everything. There is a reason why we have zoning laws: To protect housing for people. AirBnB broke this. Took my city munich / germany years in curt to get the data from AirBnB. While Covid, plenty of reports came up how suddenly good flats in good locations…

Taxis were a nightmare to use before Uber; and they often weren’t available at all. The whole concept of taxi medallions is also extreme market manipulation with basically no benefit to the average consumer, which makes it doubly odd that someone would consider them somehow more ethical or less manipulative.

The benefit is, that people who need taxis, get taxis. Old people or sick people.

I have not seen any uber in smaller cities.

Uber goes were the market is 'cake'

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