Changes since congestion pricing started in New York • Hacker News Board

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#321

Post by atoav » Thu, May 15, 2025, 5:21 AM UTC

tzs wrote: post #317

mcswell wrote: post #241

There was a time when there were no automobiles in New York City, but there was lots of public transportation. (Ok, there were horses and the consequent manure, and the population was way smaller then. But still...)

Horses caused worse problems than manure. The NYC pedestrian death rate from horse accidents in 1900 was higher than the pedestrian death rate from car accidents in 2003. See this comment [1] for references. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42329211

Yeah but back then streets were for people and horses. There were no clear markings separating the sections, there were no laws making it illegal for you to walk on the streets.

If there were traffic laws, nobody knew them and people wouldn't know which way to go to avoid a head on collision.

If you'd just replace cars with horses today it would go a lot different.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#322

Post by aziaziazi » Thu, May 15, 2025, 5:27 AM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #123

aziaziazi wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well most raw vegan food is already way cheaper that raw meat: Quality organic dry chickpeas, lentils, beans, soy etc… already are around 2€/kg where I live and when you add water they double/triple in weight so you end up at 1€/kg. You’ll probably eat a bit more weight than meat but still the price is nowhere comparable. Add some whole cereals instead of white bread for nutrition and better satiety: they’re more exp…

Missing the point, which was that you're not going to convince people like me who ignore the vegan options just by having them be cheaper than meat, because I won't look. The only thing that would make me look at the vegan options would be if I felt I couldn't afford the meat options.

1. I’m not trying to convince you or anyone. In fact people always convince themselves, you only can share facts and opinion with them and they do their own arbitrage. Eat what you want to eat.

2. Speak for yourself. "People like me" doesn’t mean much, you may share some thought but everyone have a whole life of different experiences. Your argument on price and affordability makes sense may be shared by others but is probably more complex and nuanced than only that sentence, and others sharing that thought with you today may have a slightly different one yesterday and tomorrow.

3. Not many admit it, but people do changes opinion sometime, framing it as a logical conclusion to thinks they discover, read etc… nobody wakes up and become vegan out of nowhere. They had experiences, process it and make they own arbitrage just like you’re doing. In that sense I know my message has been read by more that only you and hope it helps understanding that many vegans eat more that impossible-burger only.

4. Genuine questions : why do you eat meat ? I guess it’s more than the affordability only. otherwise you’ll smoke, fentanyl yourself and drink only sodas if you can. When I have long talk with someone it usually comes down to habits or tradition. I’d be happy to read your opinion on that question.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#323

Post by mmooss » Thu, May 15, 2025, 5:30 AM UTC

The downsides are all dismissed one way or the other ...

  Restaurants, Broadway     Holding up
  Pollution                 Too soon to say
  Lower-income commuters    Too soon to say
  Public opinion            Not great, but improving

I think highly of the NYT, but this is a fan's article. At the top they say,

The reporters sought information from everyone they could think of, including the M.T.A., the Fire Department, restaurant-booking platforms, researchers and one yellow school bus company.

How about from low-income commuters?

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#324

Post by mmooss » Thu, May 15, 2025, 5:31 AM UTC

aynyc wrote: post #271

As a long time NYC resident who moved out during Covid but commute to work in the city. I definitely noticed less traffic on the streets and less noise. I see a lot of talk of other cities that don't have good public transportation. For example, between Flushing in Queens to 8th Ave in Brooklyn, there are privately run buses at affordable rate and get you there at half the time of trains. There are buses from a lot o…

The parent is almost perfectly timed with Uber's announcement. Suddenly it's a hot topic, though without mentioning Uber.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#325

Post by mmooss » Thu, May 15, 2025, 5:33 AM UTC

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #287

aynyc wrote: post #271

As a long time NYC resident who moved out during Covid but commute to work in the city. I definitely noticed less traffic on the streets and less noise. I see a lot of talk of other cities that don't have good public transportation. For example, between Flushing in Queens to 8th Ave in Brooklyn, there are privately run buses at affordable rate and get you there at half the time of trains. There are buses from a lot o…

>>> I'm curious, do other larger cities where commercial is concentrated into one area not have a private mini-bus(es)? It turns out, there are some private buses. Take for example, Santiago, Chile. It succeeded in terms of profits and customer satisfaction. The problem is they do not survive. There comes a time when they don't pay sufficient "political capital" and get taken over (nationalized) by local politicians.…

Lots of places in the world run public bus systems - it seems by far the most common to me. It's hardly a thing of 'socialism' (always a bad word on HN).

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#326

Post by chupasaurus » Thu, May 15, 2025, 5:36 AM UTC

aynyc wrote: post #271

As a long time NYC resident who moved out during Covid but commute to work in the city. I definitely noticed less traffic on the streets and less noise. I see a lot of talk of other cities that don't have good public transportation. For example, between Flushing in Queens to 8th Ave in Brooklyn, there are privately run buses at affordable rate and get you there at half the time of trains. There are buses from a lot o…

In Moscow there are 2,5 cases of commercial buses: routes that differ from city-owned ones (both local and between parts) and downtown-to-satellite-city_name where there is no other public transport. Both mini and normal buses are being used, as you might guess they are still operating because they fill the niche and are faster than public buses because those have stops each 2-3 minutes. Subway there is far more preferred if it's even remotely an option, due to congestion and reliability.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#327

Post by mmooss » Thu, May 15, 2025, 5:37 AM UTC

bryanlarsen wrote: post #12

philipallstar wrote: post #9

The increased speeds are excellent for those who can afford the toll. This is a universal benefit of toll roads for those people.

And the investments in public transit and bike paths are excellent for those who can't. Such unalloyed win-wins are hard to find.

> public transit and bike paths are excellent for those who can't

Are they? Based on what?

Many people can't reasonably ride bikes for many reasons, especially in NYC bike lanes with delivery people flying around on e-bikes. Public transit isn't always sufficient - people end up switching buses four times, etc.

The roads are a public good; again policy 'innovation' is merely dismissing responsibilities and difficult requirements - as long as the rich people's requirements aren't the ones dismissed.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#328

Post by baq » Thu, May 15, 2025, 5:44 AM UTC

jaza wrote: post #309

epistasis wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We bought a very fancy and expensive 2 toddler stroller when we had two toddlers and it saw almost no use because it was a hassle pretty much everywhere. I advise all new parents to avoid purchasing one until there's a proven need, and I don't know any other parents that thought it was a good idea to purchase one. I'm sure it's great for some kids, but certainly not mine or even most kids. I honestly don't understand…

My twins spent several hours in their stroller (bugaboo donkey) on many days, back when they were toddlers (a lot of that time being spent having their afternoon nap in the stroller). Living in Sydney Australia. Similar car-centric problems to most US cities. But I guess we're lucky to live walking distance from parks, supermarkets, childcare centres (and now school), and a train station. And the stroller fitted fold…

The donkey is an amazing stroller. We also used a double decker trike with larger wheels, worked very well. Can’t remember the exact model, unfortunately.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#329

Post by lrem » Thu, May 15, 2025, 5:45 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #291

dripdry45 wrote: post #283

I wonder if adding congestion pricing in small cities to certain intersections or stretches of road would work the same way. if people really want to go through the busiest intersections or areas, then they’re going to have to pay a little bit. Then people question whether they are going to go through, or pay a little bit to keep up the infrastructure if they do.

It's one thing to have it for a whole downtown area, applying it to individual intersections or roads is going to be a nightmare for drivers and just generate more and more surveillance infrastructure.

Isn’t the surveillance battle already lost? For at least a couple years now? At least in Europe it feels like you’re passing a camera every couple minutes.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#330

Post by listenallyall » Thu, May 15, 2025, 5:47 AM UTC

czzr wrote: post #133

listenallyall wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you write it out like that, it seems to make total sense! But then you read grant proposals that get funded - in things like the social sciences and humanities, and even conventional science and health - millions of dollars essentially just throwing darts to see what sticks.

Surely you see the difference between working in a development environment and working in production?

The comment to which I replied was referring to the cost, not to the implementation