Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News.. • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#241

Post by nikcub » Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 7:12 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

Moving the snarky comments from the top of a comment thread to the bottom won't help much. The snark sets the tone of the thread and disuades better comments. You need a way to remove them.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#242

Post by aswanson » Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 7:12 PM UTC

hnriot wrote: post #162

pg wrote: post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

Sometimes saying an idea is pointless is positive feedback, there are a lot of people here that 'launch a startup' which basically means some half-assed website that does something utterly pointless and then expect the community to be like some kind of benevolent uncle and pat them on the back and say what an awesome idea and execution. Many many ideas really are pointless and negative criticism is very much a part o…

It's not a matter of handling negative comments or constructive criticism as an adult. That's been here for at least as long as I have been here (5+ years). It's a matter of those comments being derisive, abrasive potshots (oftimes at the person rather than product) providing no value. Assholeism for it's own sake, the net effect of which is to lower the level of discourse here a la the broken window theory.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#243

Post by EToS » Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 7:13 PM UTC

i wonder if karma should be used in a more constructive way, say to make sure people earn the right to comment on the popular stories..

I guess this assumes the community as a whole still contains more positive rather than negative people, But i like to think it does still

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#244

Post by dsirijus » Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 7:13 PM UTC

Ok. How about this...

I promise to do my best to make my comments, submissions and votes more constructive and relevant.

As simple as that.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#245

Post by cplat » Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 7:15 PM UTC

mhartl wrote: post #196

tptacek wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish you'd consider investing less time in technical countermeasures to dumbness (all of them are gameable, and the brand of dumbness you're fighting is not at all incompatible with an intuitive talent for that gamesmanship) and more time into just setting better community norms. It is hard to imagine that the site guidelines you write years and years and years ago when this place was tiny are, intact and without c…

I'm sympathetic to your point, but I fear that the worst offenders are among those least likely even to read the guidelines, much less adhere to them.

Yes, that's true. However, giving proper guidelines can help in a lot of cases. When a person uses a site for the first time, he'd search at least somewhat for some basic guidelines. After that, he'd be tied to the same routine, and might not easily change with the changing guidelines.

I know that the worst offenders won't read the guidelines, but a little faith in the rest of them would go a long way improving the quality of content on this site.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#246

Post by ibejoeb » Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 7:17 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

I've observed that simple, positive feedback like "Looks good, keep it up" gets downvoted as nonconstructive. Karma is more than internet points here since the thresholds drive so many features, so I bet people who would otherwise comment in the affirmative simply don't. Paradoxically, nit picking and verbose argument can score a lot.

I don't want to offer any particular suggestion because I don't have any data to support anything. A hunch, though, based on your idea: if someone want to downvote, a comment must be provided.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#247

Post by mcherm » Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 7:18 PM UTC

raffi wrote: post #190

sbierwagen wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a thread from 847 days ago full of people being mean and negative about Groupon: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1288116 Today, Groupon stock is worthless, and the company is doomed. Should the people in that thread be penalized for being right, but mean?

Most companies fail. It's a safe bet to predict failure. It's pretty lame to celebrate that failure from the sidelines. Vision is not "how is this guaranteed to fail?" but how could it possibly succeed despite the odds? Which voice do you want to bring to this community?

Groupon didn't "fail", instead it has been astonishingly successful.

However, around the time of it's IPO it was receiving so much undeserved hype that in comparison to THOSE lofty goals it appears to have failed. HN readers at the time were pointing out the hype, and I think that is a GOOD thing.

Nevertheless, I agree that the tone of the community could be better and I will strive to adjust my own comments to reflect that.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#248

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 7:18 PM UTC

mibbitier wrote: post #151

pg wrote: post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

Why not simply limit the size of the community? Heck charge a membership fee... Making it invite only would have (IMHO) improved things a massive amount. Have people do a test to gain entry. Any community that is free and open will just deteriorate over time.

[deleted]

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#249

Post by hobbyist » Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 7:18 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

I have one solution for this. I just read some another post on tor networks and taking ideas from it I think it can be really good if hackernews is removed from this ip addressing layer and taken inside the tor. This would help as hopefully nt many ppl wud be willing to install tor and taking too many pains to come to hacker news :)

PS: I hope

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#250

Post by hobbyist » Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 7:18 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

I have one solution for this. I just read some another post on tor networks and taking ideas from it I think it can be really good if hackernews is removed from this ip addressing layer and taken inside the tor. This would help as hopefully nt many ppl wud be willing to install tor and taking too many pains to come to hacker news :)

PS: I hope