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Dusk OS

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Re: Dusk OS

#91
I feel I can empathize with the ideology, and I want to argue that an idea like this is a big piece of some puzzle.

The puzzle: During the collapse, I think the biggest thing we would lose is our ability to communicate with each other in a reliable way. Like telecommunications and internet and all that. Who and what do we trust?

I imagine that before a collapse like this would happen, people would get a hint to gather as much as they can to help with their survival. Those things would include: this OS, the knowledge to load a sequence of bytes from whatever device is holding the OS to as many CPUs/controllers as possible, strategies to connect any number of arbitrary CPUs to radio devices, some knowledge of public keys and private keys. maybe all neatly organized into a handbook

The OS itself would be responsible for providing as easy an interface for any average joe to generate public/private keys, communicate with other people who have followed their same protocol, and use those public keys to build trust from communications. before the collapse happens, you may even collect a list of public keys you are likely to already trust.

The OS could maybe even have software for building communities of trust or even handling adhoc finances through (don't hate me for this) cryptocurrency.

anyways, this is all based on an assumption that the ability to communicate quickly (and build trust in a decentralized yet controllable way) is the best mitigation we have to a collapse

this answer is slightly influenced by the movie leave the world behind lol

Re: Dusk OS

#92
post #5

Tbh I agree with almost every word there, but I can't believe this OS would be of any help in such a situation. In dusk of our civilization it will not be possible to boot this OS from any modern computer. Those things nowadays don't even have CD. everything is dependent on internet, our data is being disowned by us and put into cloud. In case of broken internet the knowledge is going to be lost. And how we're going…

You don't need a CD drive to boot an OS. A humble USB stick does the trick. And nearly every computer made in the last 10 years has a USB port and the ability to boot from it

What kind of apocalyptic event that wipes out all computer manufacturing capability would let USB drives (and compatible computers) survive? And how would you power that thing?

Re: Dusk OS

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any event or series of events that removes mankind's ability to produce modern computers is a global extinction-level event and rather than dicking around with computers one should really be considering suicide to avoid a slow, painful, inevitable death in a hostile world surrounded by misery. Hmmm... At a very high altitude extinction-level events have sufficiently sharp edges. But, as we get closer to things it b…

Those were all local events. The only thing removing mankind's ability to make computers is a large (Chicxulub-ish-sized) meteor strike or andromeda-strain-like sci-fi story made real. Luckily, I'll be killed by tidal waves if a meteor hits the Atlantic and I'll be killed in the firestorm if it hits land anywhere on Earth. If it hits the Pacific or Indian oceans, it depends on the size. If large enough, I'll shoot my…

> Those were all local events.

> The only thing removing mankind's ability to make computers is a large (Chicxulub-ish-sized) meteor strike or andromeda-strain-like sci-fi story made real.

One of the possible causes of the Bronze Age Collapse (which btw was very non-local) is a prolonged drought that apparently lasted for decades. It's wasn't severe by itself but long enough for the fertile soil to keep shrinking year after year, decreasing the size of sustainable population.

I dwell on this sometimes and I think that probably we underestimate how fragile our food production system is. Feeding 8 billion people is not an easy endeavor. Multi-year global food reserves are not only non-existent but maybe even non-possible at this scale. A global event that would somehow disrupt our ability to produce food for several years in a row will make the hell break loose. I'm not confident that humanity couldn't plunge in a couple of dark age centuries as a result, all bets are off in a truly global famine.

Then the curious question is how likely is such an event? Chicxulub -- yes, but these are extremely rare, once in millions of years. The Volcanic Winters however occur every few centuries, the "Year Without a Summer" was 1816. Could we have "3 years without a summer" at some point? And not just in the northern hemisphere but globally? I don't know, maybe.

After all, the way I think of it is this: modern food production at scale is sun + water + fertilizers. Production of fertilizers seem distributed enough to be resilient at a global scale. Water at the Earth scale is sun again -- as long as it's shining it will rain somewhere, even if the distribution shifts (with dramatic effects for sure, but not a completely desperate situation). But then the sun does seem to be the single point of failure. If there's dust or ash or something else shielding the sun then it is in fact desperate.

Re: Dusk OS

#94
Where can I go to learn how to scavenge for microcontrollers and load/operate an OS like this on them? (Low-key would like to know that I could do that if need be).

Re: Dusk OS

#95
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any event or series of events that removes mankind's ability to produce modern computers is a global extinction-level event and rather than dicking around with computers one should really be considering suicide to avoid a slow, painful, inevitable death in a hostile world surrounded by misery. Wow... there are probably several ways we could lose the ability to fab semiconductors. We can look back through history at…

> Brunelleschi's dome on the Florence Cathedral was the first major dome built in Europe in over a thousand years since the fall of the Western Roman Empire. I don't think it necessarily means they forgot how to do it, though. Or does it? We too stopped building domes made of big stones, it doesn't mean we don't know how to do it.

For whatever reason they weren't building domes anymore in Europe where they had been (the fall of the Western Roman empire sort of changed priorities for a while). And after a generation of not building domes the artisans (in Europe) lost the ability to do it.

There's a much closer example: The US spent the 60s developing the capability to land humans on the moon. And they were successful. They did it about, what, 7 or 8 times? But then they stopped doing it. And now some 60 years later they're having a hard time doing it again (see the woes of NASA's Artemis and Boeing's Starliner). Imagine if the pause wasn't 60 years, but several hundred years.

Re: Dusk OS

#96
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that your usb charger has a microprocesor that is as capable as computers you used to play on as a child? Seriously, finding a running 386 today will probably be more challanging than finding a PC capable of running Cyberpunk in 4k 5 years after the fallout. Like others have mentioned at worst it's another TempleOS or subtle way to point out to your acquaintance that they shouldn't stay with you alone…

> years after the fallout. Ok, but that's not the purpose of the OS. I recommend you to read the Why page: https://collapseos.org/why.html Two relevants parts: > Computers, after a few decades, will break down beyond repair and we won't be able to program microcontrollers any more. > It's not that modern ICs are more fragile than old ones (maybe they are, after all, more can go wrong with millions of transistors than…

Yeah, I've read that with the voice of Ron Perlman: "FAT, FAT never changes...".

I get that not every vault dweller will be technically apt enough to build a working computer out of a usb charger, but there is plenty of hardware and software that will be laying around in shrines near ghoul settlements.

Every store has POSes that can be easilly repurposed, there's DOS, Windows95 and if your tribe really wants to get an edge during a siege on enemy village you will most likely be able to calculate catapults trajectories on a PIP... I mean old android phone.

Re: Dusk OS

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any event or series of events that removes mankind's ability to produce modern computers is a global extinction-level event and rather than dicking around with computers one should really be considering suicide to avoid a slow, painful, inevitable death in a hostile world surrounded by misery. Wow... there are probably several ways we could lose the ability to fab semiconductors. We can look back through history at…

There are no Dark Ages. People in the Byzantine Empire (capitale in Europe) and the Abbasid Caliphate very much knew how to build domes and where actually busy advancing the state of the art. The fact that the Franks were more interested in warring against each others than building great things is no evidence of a dark age. They started building again once peace came back and didn’t restart from where they left off b…

> The idea that humanity somehow went back is a fantasy pushed forward by catholic commentators.

A tangential aside: Wouldn't that make the catholics look bad and as such why would they spread it? ("We had all this great tech before the catholic/christians came along and ruined everything and now we don't have nice things" seems like another way to look at it)

Re: Dusk OS

#99
post #60
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any event or series of events that removes mankind's ability to produce modern computers is a global extinction-level event Semiconductors have been around for, what, 70 years? The idea that humans couldn’t survive without modern tech is ludicrous. Sure, there will be fewer humans, but extincting humans completely is likely to be incredibly difficult without an atmosphere-on-fire scale event.

The point isn't that humans couldn't survive without computers, but that any even that managed to stop humans globally from manufacturing computers would be such a massively disruptive event in much more important areas than computing.

> massively disruptive event

That’s not the same as what I was replying to: “a global extinction-level event”

The difference is pretty substantial.

Re: Dusk OS

#100

>Its primary purpose is to be maximally useful during the first stage of civilizational collapse, that is, when we can't produce modern computers anymore but that there's still many modern computers around. Any event or series of events that removes mankind's ability to produce modern computers is a global extinction-level event and rather than dicking around with computers one should really be considering suicide to…

> Any event or series of events that removes mankind's ability to produce modern computers is a global extinction-level event and rather than dicking around with computers one should really be considering suicide to avoid a slow, painful, inevitable death in a hostile world surrounded by misery. To give some color, here: https://blog.sentinel-team.org/p/how-likely-are-various-prec... is a list of a few things that co…

We just experienced 10x that 5 years ago. It did damage supply chains but it didn’t result in collapse.
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