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Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

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Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#121
post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

Considering it's probably tricky to programmatically determine what a nasty comment is, I'm assuming you'll figure out whether a comment is good/bad based on the ratio of upvotes to downvotes, and penalize those who voted against the grain.

I get this, but wouldn't this lead to making HN more conformist than it sometimes already is? "Either you agree with the majority of us about X, or..."

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#123
HN is just like any other social network.

I've run a social network for writers called Scribophile for almost 5 years now. People have said exactly what you're saying in this post about my site, all the way from day 1 to the present day. Too much negativity, people are out to get me, everybody is mean, person X is poisonous but I'm actually very nice, things used to be better in the "good old days".

But as an impartial observer (I, strangely enough, don't really participate in my own site), I can say that things haven't really changed that much in 5 years. There were nice people then, there are nice people now. There were jerks then, there were jerks now.

Any place you get messy, emotional people together in an anonymous social situation, this is going to happen. What is also guaranteed to happen--and I think your post is illustrative of this--is long-timers will grow bored and decide to drift off. A guy (I can't remember his name right now) wrote an insightful post about this and called it "evaporative cooling". It happens to every single community, in mine, and in HN.

Does that mean HN is on an irreversible slide into decadence? Not really. It just means you're over the community, and it's time for you to move on. In reality I doubt the general vibe of HN has changed that much over the years. Otherwise nobody would be here.

However as an administrator of a community, I can tell you that I certainly do not appreciate disappointed, emotional, "it's not the good old days"-style, long-winded farewells. If people aren't finding a site useful, then just leave, or send a private note to the administrator with your thoughts. Absolutely nothing good comes out of a public complaint-fest. Sorry if that sounds harsh and brutal.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#124
post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

One thing that would solve the problem with growth would be partitioning the "community" into smaller groups that are manageable by each user. Reddit does it through subreddits and it works somewhat. I would favor an approach where users could white/gray/blacklist other users, and use these as modifiers to the overall score.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#125
post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

maybe the new kids don't know any better? can we crowd-educate them as to acceptable comments? stackoverflow has used strict categorization of "reasons for flagging post" to great success in influencing how the crowd moderates.

  "-1, poor tone"
  "-1, offtopic"
  "-1, factually incorrect"

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#126
post #121
post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

Considering it's probably tricky to programmatically determine what a nasty comment is, I'm assuming you'll figure out whether a comment is good/bad based on the ratio of upvotes to downvotes, and penalize those who voted against the grain. I get this, but wouldn't this lead to making HN more conformist than it sometimes already is? "Either you agree with the majority of us about X, or..."

it's probably tricky to programmatically determine what a nasty comment is

I've actually been working on that problem with a bot that assists in moderating a subreddit using a text classifier. It's tricky, and needs more work, but it is not impossible.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#127
post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

> So I'm going to try to see if it's possible to identify people who consistently upvote nasty comments and if so count their votes less.

Why don't you automate this process? All of the people you upvote have the most credibility, the posts they upvote have a little less, and people who upvote those posts gain a little credibility too, and so on. Tuned right, voting itself becomes a function of whatever the base of the community is.

New users -- depending on what kind of posts they upvote and who upvotes their posts -- must be able to gain credibility quickly, not just by upvoting the top posts, but picking winning and losing comments in the long term.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#129
post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

Would Kaggle be a good fit to help solve this problem?

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#130
Don't worry, you don't need to be married to HN. There will be something else replacing it, probably giving you exactly the kind of community you look for (because, simply, you are not the only one).

I hopped from slashdot to digg, from digg to reddit, and from reddit to HN. It's just another link in the chain.

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