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Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation

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Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation

#181

Post by ahmeneeroe-v2 »

daveguy wrote: post #151
ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the exec, the courts, and a majority of congress I genuinely don't understand how this can be a coup when all three branches agree. I mean sure, we are well outside the strict scope of Constitution, but that ship left generations ago.

It won't be a coup if they abide by the results of the 2026 election. Last time an election didn't go their way, they did not abide by the results.

What are you saying? It's all a big nothing burger until 2026? And then maybe it's still nothing?

Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation

#182

Post by wat10000 »

rtkwe wrote: post #174
wat10000 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We were, it’s just that this special property was owning our own private continent.

True I meant more in the political/economic sphere. Being isolated geographically from both WW1 and WW2 was a major boon to the US economy, we got the economic benefit of the wars without the damage (beyond lives lost of course). And as time has gone on that geography is less and less effective as a shield.

Yeah, I was really just reinforcing your point in a cheeky way.

Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation

#183

Post by mystraline »

ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #179
mystraline wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I genuinely don't understand how this can be a coup when all three branches agree. The courts have been captured and politicized heavily. Clearance Thomas should be expelled for emoluments. Kavanaugh also for lying on the stand. Congress has a bare majority for republicans. So getting impeachments for actual crimes by republicans is a non-starter. POTUS and executive branch can run roughshod, and order all sorts of…

>The courts have been captured and politicized heavily This isn't a real thing. They're not captured, people are just on them that you don't like and they're ruling against your values. >Congress has a bare majority for republicans So the majority is governing?

So, emoluments violations, bribery, and perjury should be legal?

I wasn't calling out party political disputes. I was calling out taking massive bribes, violating the emoluments clause, and perjury.

Your politics are showing. I prefer rule of law, not of kakistocrat.

Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation

#184

Post by mschuster91 »

atemerev wrote: post #169
mschuster91 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I were in charge of science in a wealthy country right now I would be working overtime to brain drain US researchers. European universities would love to do so, the problem is that our model of funding is just as braindead as it is in the US (if not worse, like in Germany) and our politicians are too braindead or unwilling to fix the circumstances.

There are no free countries wealthy enough to do that. European salaries in the academia are laughable even by American academic standards, including supposedly rich countries like Germany and Netherlands. Switzerland is too small, and cut her scientific funding recently as well. UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia etc are authoritarian petrostates. One country that will actually drain American researchers will be China.

> One country that will actually drain American researchers will be China.

Not really. Even if they'd shower American scientists in money, who will guarantee they won't be taken hostage in a political conflict? It has happened in the past [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_an...

Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation

#185

Post by alabastervlog »

naasking wrote: post #176
alabastervlog wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

2024/06/28

DOGE got ahold of Obama's time machine?

What people expect is a connection between the claims of fraud and the massive cuts, funding pauses (which effectively destroy some research, wasting any money already spent), and disruptive reorganizations. The claim is that DOGE is uncovering so very much fraud all over the place, that you practically can't enter a government office without tripping over fraud. Where's all this fraud, justifying such extreme measures? They say they found it! Where are the indictments? Where are the investigations? There should be lots of them.

... unless they're lying.

Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation

#186

Post by cratermoon »

robinsoncrusue wrote: post #71
Onawa wrote: post #25

As a federal contractor within NIH, I can tell you that the damage has already been done to the United States' dominance in science. Even if every action taken by current administration is reversed, the uncertainty for foreign scientists is too much. Many that I have spoken to are looking for their exit from either gov or academic research, or looking to leave the United States completely. The Trump admins cuts are n…

> the damage has already been done to the United States' dominance in science Why should my tax dollar subsidize for the dominance of US in science? How has US dominance in science helped the average American taxpayer in last decade other than funneling billions to arms or pharma industry or funding academians being out of touch with the rest of the country?

You're on the internet. Do you think Jeff Bezos or Mark Zuckerberg built that?

Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation

#187

Post by thisisit »

jarjoura wrote: post #64
Onawa wrote: post #25

As a federal contractor within NIH, I can tell you that the damage has already been done to the United States' dominance in science. Even if every action taken by current administration is reversed, the uncertainty for foreign scientists is too much. Many that I have spoken to are looking for their exit from either gov or academic research, or looking to leave the United States completely. The Trump admins cuts are n…

I hate to be a contrarian right now, and it’s hard to disagree that an entire generation of science progress will be severely slowed because of this incompetence. However, deep scientific cultural do roots exist here and won’t be stamped out by some fearmongering. The entire western world is under populist pressure right now, not just here. So even if you imagine someone moving out and studying in a different country…

> However, deep scientific cultural do roots exist here and won’t be stamped out by some fearmongering

So, cutting off real funding is now considered "fearmongering"?

Sure, scientists wont move and decades of research goes down the drain and/or will never exist. Science progress will slow down but lets be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.

Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation

#188

Post by abirch »

naasking wrote: post #134
The5thElephant wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not doing basic research, and your research is entirely driven by short-term profit motives rather than long term benefit of humanity.

[flagged]

You're not wrong, however, who would have funded lasers? What about CRISPR funding? Most scientists are focused on status, however, many revolutionary discoveries come out of basic research paid for by the government and not companies.

Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation

#189

Post by jsbg »

Symmetry wrote: post #165
jjtheblunt wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bell Labs is a counterexample that ran for decades, and pharma companies have internal research labs, I know Motorola and Apple have, too. In my experience, industry can be vastly better funded, but the industry labs are internal and perhaps very hard to find.

Bell labs was funded from the profits of a legal monopoly, and the money spent on it was used to justify the continuance of that monopoly. You do see some private basic research these days as with Google in robotics or Microsoft in quantum computers but its fairly rare and small compared to government funded research. And pharma companies do a lot of research but it's almost entirely applied, taking the basic process…

> it's almost entirely applied, [...] you need both halves there to sustain our current progress

why do we need to subsidize "half" of these pharma companies' research? if they can't get it for free then they'll have to find a way to do it themselves at a profit

Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation

#190

Post by Onawa »

naasking wrote: post #168
Onawa wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please provide evidence of fraud in government funding. I have yet to see any real evidence of fraud from the DOGE reports, just contracts and projects that don't align with the current administration's world view and priorities. Yes, scientists are human and there are certainly instances of scientific misconduct that take time to root out. In the grand scheme of things, funding for science generates many times its v…

> Please provide evidence of fraud in government funding. Are you serious? Just go look at the recent Alzheimer's research scandal. It's the tip of the iceberg.

The fraud perpetrated by an individual which misled the field as whole is not the same as 'fraud in government funding'.

Again, scientists are human and will do things for personal gain. There are mechanisms being implemented in science funding that are meant to try and curb this behavior. NIH intramural research now require the use of electronic lab notebooks, which greatly reduce the ability to doctor data post-experiment. There is also a push for scientific preregistration, which helps to prevent p-hacking and hypothesis modification.

But saying that all funding towards a scientific dead-end due to misdirection by individual researchers is proof of fraud in government funding doesn't compute.

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