This is how Visa works • Hacker News Board

Re: This is how Visa works

#51

Post by nico » Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 4:55 PM UTC

hannibalhorn wrote: post #32

DanBC wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in a situation where oversight is difficult to impossible. That excuse no longer washes.

In an ideal world, yes, but I reside in a very similar country, and have seen and heard too many similar stories to be naive. I think the best thing that can be done is to blog about it like this; someone in Visa corporate will take notice and changes will be made, hopefully for the better.

That is just an excuse. If big companies really care, they can make it happen. For example I know several people who work at Walmart in Chile, and they've told me about the very strict rules the company has for negotiating contracts and dealing with vendors, breaking those rules is considered a very serious issue and usually ends on the person who broke those rules getting fired.

Re: This is how Visa works

#52

Post by rroriz » Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 4:55 PM UTC

Hey Eduardo, I tried to commend on your blog, but it seems that someone entered an html tag in the last comment and didn't close it. It screwed your comment system.

I'm from Brazil too, and this kind of stuff didn't surprise me. But you have to contact a lawyer and ask for help. Our legal system isn´t the best, but we have to make some effort to make it better.

Best wishes!

Re: This is how Visa works

#53

Post by NoPiece » Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 4:55 PM UTC

pmjordan wrote: post #41

Random idea: If I remember correctly, the US has extremely strict anti-bribery laws that apply to bribes made outside the US jurisdiction as well. These might only apply to government bribes (corruption), but if they apply here too, you could consider rattling the global Visa parent company's chain in the US in some way.

IANAL, but I think the FCPA (Foreign Corrupt Practices Act) only covers bribes to foreign government officials.

Re: This is how Visa works

#54

Post by j_s » Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 4:59 PM UTC

brown9-2 wrote: post #35

hannibalhorn wrote: post #17

Plenty of multinationals play "dirty" in Latin America, I've heard similar stories about several other companies here from people that work for smaller, local competitors. That said, I highly doubt that it's a policy of the home office, it's really just the end result of hiring people who get results in the region, in a situation where oversight is difficult to impossible.

Let's say you were a US-based multinational that wanted to expand your market share overseas, at any means necessary, even if it means using tactics that would be frowned upon or illegal in the US. Isn't the "this was an unauthorized move by a subcontractor" the exact defense you would plan to use then when the dirty tactics were exposed?

Unfortunately, it works.

Re: This is how Visa works

#55

Post by ciupicri » Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 5:02 PM UTC

eduardordm wrote: post #23

IsaacL wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of this story, I find it very cool that in Brazil you can just setup your own credit card company. Are there many regional CC networks like yours in Brazil? How did you get the idea?

Credit card company is generic term. In our case we are a PAT (we provide employees benefits). We never "touch" the money, your employer is, indirectly, who pays the merchants. We cannot provide loans (credit). For that, we need a lot of cash (FDIC insurances, etc)

So what you're providing is similar to meal tickets or coupons?

Re: This is how Visa works

#56

Post by hazov » Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 5:03 PM UTC

Just to give some context.

RedeConv is a electronic payment company, it does not offer any credit from what I saw like Visa does, electronic payment is a market that only recently the Visa brand began exploring in Brazil, offering prepaid cards for payments of employee meals (this is what Visa Vale is basically), providing means for this type of electronic payment and offering credit for payments are not the same thing in Brazil.

In this case the company in question to blame is not exactly Visa but Cielo that probably is just upset about losing market in electronic payments, which is what I believe RedeConv provides, Cielo began as a Joint venture between Visa and some Brazilian banks some years ago, the name of the company was VisaNet until it was renamed in 2010 I believe, the company is one of the most profitables in the Brazilian stock exchange where it's listed and its profit increases after every quarter, I personally own some Cielo stocks.

EDIT: Eduardo, if you can record one or more conversations from merchants relating about that you can denounce Cielo to the CADE (the Brazilian equivalent of the FTC). Before doing that you should call a lawyer first so he can inform you how you should do it legally.

Re: This is how Visa works

#57

Post by angersock » Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 5:32 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #39

nookie wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really want to know how sausages are made? :)

If I'm running a multi-million dollar SausageCo, Inc., then yes, I would very much like to know how the sausages I'm responsible for are made.

At the multi-billion dollar mark, though, it doesn't really matter that much now does it? :(

Re: This is how Visa works

#58

Post by nandemo » Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 5:35 PM UTC

goatforce5 wrote: post #18

andr wrote: post #16

While this is preposterous behavior, I am very surprised it's even possible to operate your own payment card network. Visa/MasterCard is the one monopoly I thought was practically unbreakable. Even PayPal, who is supposed to be a Visa competitor, issues Visa cards.

This happened in Brazil. From the figures in the blog post it seems as though Visa isn't quite so entrenched there.

Visa is huge in Brazil. However, OP is not exactly in the credit card processing market (cf. eduardordm's comments in this thread).

Re: This is how Visa works

#59

Post by eduardordm » Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 6:00 PM UTC

hazov wrote: post #56

Just to give some context. RedeConv is a electronic payment company, it does not offer any credit from what I saw like Visa does, electronic payment is a market that only recently the Visa brand began exploring in Brazil, offering prepaid cards for payments of employee meals (this is what Visa Vale is basically), providing means for this type of electronic payment and offering credit for payments are not the same thi…

Just adding: CBSS (now called Alelo) is a Visa company that operates Visa Vale cards. Cielo is a gateway, actually we are Cielo partners, never had a problem with them.

Re: This is how Visa works

#60

Post by hazov » Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 6:13 PM UTC

eduardordm wrote: post #59

hazov wrote: post #56

Just to give some context. RedeConv is a electronic payment company, it does not offer any credit from what I saw like Visa does, electronic payment is a market that only recently the Visa brand began exploring in Brazil, offering prepaid cards for payments of employee meals (this is what Visa Vale is basically), providing means for this type of electronic payment and offering credit for payments are not the same thi…

Just adding: CBSS (now called Alelo) is a Visa company that operates Visa Vale cards. Cielo is a gateway, actually we are Cielo partners, never had a problem with them.

Good, I stand corrected, anyway look for a lawyer, he will give you proper recommendations on what to do next.