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Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation

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Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation

#21

Post by ty6853 »

vessenes wrote: post #3

Good read; too long to sway public opinion though. The most convincing and interesting thing I’ve read about the US’s science standing is just a reminder that it wasn’t always considered a global science leader. A few people saw the opportunity created by Nazi ideological purges of scientists and built, among other things, Princeton’s IAS. Considered most charitably, the current administration sees itself as trying t…

Not just the Nazis. The Russians had Lysenkoism.

It's a common characteristics of states that start consolidating enough power to nationalize science funding. They often eventually use it to wield power.

Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation

#22

Post by [deleted] »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9
vessenes wrote: post #3

Good read; too long to sway public opinion though. The most convincing and interesting thing I’ve read about the US’s science standing is just a reminder that it wasn’t always considered a global science leader. A few people saw the opportunity created by Nazi ideological purges of scientists and built, among other things, Princeton’s IAS. Considered most charitably, the current administration sees itself as trying t…

> too long to sway public opinion Our founders were aware of the perils of letting public opinion write public policy. We’ve spent a lot of the post-Cold War era dismantling that anti-populist infrastructure. To the extent I see a guiding light out of this mess, it’s in reducing the electoral fetishism that has dominated post-90s democratic discourse. There is more to democracy (and more pointedly, republics) than po…

[deleted]

Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation

#23

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

bad_haircut72 wrote: post #8
vessenes wrote: post #3

Good read; too long to sway public opinion though. The most convincing and interesting thing I’ve read about the US’s science standing is just a reminder that it wasn’t always considered a global science leader. A few people saw the opportunity created by Nazi ideological purges of scientists and built, among other things, Princeton’s IAS. Considered most charitably, the current administration sees itself as trying t…

IMHO America's success as a scientific powerhouse had more to do with the research infrastructure spun up to win the war than Nazi scientists afterwards.

Parent comment says "the opportunity created by Nazi ideological purges of scientists" , which is not the same as "Nazi scientists".

Did you see the "Oppenheimer" movie? Check the real physicists depicted working on the Manhattan project. A large number of them were European Jews who left before or during the war. Einstein, Teller, Szilard, Hornig.

Even some others left Europe because of this: Niels Bohr (Jewish Mother) and Enrico Fermi (Jewish Wife).

To be sure there was Wernher von Braun and co as well.

In fact, it would be quicker to list the Manhattan project physicists depicted in that movie who were not Jewish at all:

* Ernest Lawrence

* Luis Walter Alvarez

Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation

#24

Post by alabastervlog »

mistrial9 wrote: post #5
vessenes wrote: post #3

Good read; too long to sway public opinion though. The most convincing and interesting thing I’ve read about the US’s science standing is just a reminder that it wasn’t always considered a global science leader. A few people saw the opportunity created by Nazi ideological purges of scientists and built, among other things, Princeton’s IAS. Considered most charitably, the current administration sees itself as trying t…

respectfully disagree on several points.. if "public opinion" is only legitimate in 240 characters or less, then you have doomed yourself. secondly, sitting in California, this repeated cool-kid refs to Nazis is just more knee-jerk polarization. Serious topics are at hand. Excess and overly-optimistic polarizing rhetoric with smug bank accounts are a root cause of this recent extreme swing in Federal powers. IMHO

> respectfully disagree on several points.. if "public opinion" is only legitimate in 240 characters or less, then you have doomed yourself.

I have very bad news for you re: the last ~70 years of research on voter behavior in democracies.

The story of the field is, if I may paint it a bit poetically, researchers hiding under their desks and rocking back and forth going "it can't be that bad... it can't really work like that..." until they gin up the courage to look again, find it's even worse than they thought, and repeat the cycle.

Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation

#25

Post by Onawa »

As a federal contractor within NIH, I can tell you that the damage has already been done to the United States' dominance in science. Even if every action taken by current administration is reversed, the uncertainty for foreign scientists is too much. Many that I have spoken to are looking for their exit from either gov or academic research, or looking to leave the United States completely.

The Trump admins cuts are not likely to be reversed until at minimum 2029 if Democrats are able to take the White House. But the entire scientific pipeline has been disrupted. Science has always had "passion profession" tax, but at this point I would strongly recommend anyone pursuing life sciences or government research to either consider another field, or realize that you will most likely end up in industry.

Things are quite bleak right now...

Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation

#26

Post by Onawa »

howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shFUDPqVmTg Sabine highlights the problem with scientific funding in this video and it should be required watching before posting on this thread. Reform is needed. Some good will be tossed with a lot of bad. Its a cycle, a pendulum, and it will eventually tip to excess again sometime in the future. For now... fixing what is broken ought to be the priority.

Counterpoint, please consider watching Professor Dave discuss the issues with Sabine's talking points.

While there are certainly problems within science, Sabine has the most nihilistic view of the field.

https://youtu.be/nJjPH3TQif0

Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation

#27

Post by insane_dreamer »

bad_haircut72 wrote: post #8
vessenes wrote: post #3

Good read; too long to sway public opinion though. The most convincing and interesting thing I’ve read about the US’s science standing is just a reminder that it wasn’t always considered a global science leader. A few people saw the opportunity created by Nazi ideological purges of scientists and built, among other things, Princeton’s IAS. Considered most charitably, the current administration sees itself as trying t…

IMHO America's success as a scientific powerhouse had more to do with the research infrastructure spun up to win the war than Nazi scientists afterwards.

And the investments that it continued to make in it after the war.

Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation

#29

Post by Onawa »

galoisscobi wrote: post #18
vessenes wrote: post #3

Good read; too long to sway public opinion though. The most convincing and interesting thing I’ve read about the US’s science standing is just a reminder that it wasn’t always considered a global science leader. A few people saw the opportunity created by Nazi ideological purges of scientists and built, among other things, Princeton’s IAS. Considered most charitably, the current administration sees itself as trying t…

> Good read; too long to sway public opinion though. Maybe they should have done a TikTok or a YT short? Would that be the right length?

Honestly, yes. To sway public opinion, you have to meet your audience where they get their information. I know that my mother gets most of her news from TikTok unfortunately. Reaching out to the public through as many avenues as possible is absolutely necessary at this point.

Re: Why I'm resigning from the National Science Foundation

#30

Post by glitchc »

Onawa wrote: post #25

As a federal contractor within NIH, I can tell you that the damage has already been done to the United States' dominance in science. Even if every action taken by current administration is reversed, the uncertainty for foreign scientists is too much. Many that I have spoken to are looking for their exit from either gov or academic research, or looking to leave the United States completely. The Trump admins cuts are n…

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