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In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

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Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#51

Post by FitCodIa »

hobs wrote: post #43
Arainach wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Constant negativity kills team morale. Even if the complaints are about things which are individually valid, the pattern is toxic. Imagine a sports team. After running around for 45 minutes you're all probably tired. Would you rather work with someone who says "I'm tired, it's hot in here" or someone who focuses on encouraging those around them and talking about the team's accomplishments? Part of the interview is pr…

Yes, and toxic positivity obliterates morale - being unable to acknowledge the negative outcomes of decisions means that you are just working towards some idiot's dream until you go play the roulette wheel again to figure out what the next people are not telling you about this place. This is what literally makes tech workers go dream about farming.

Precisely. Fuck "yes people", and the commitment to lying to ourselves / to each other about broken things, as an institutional strategy. If we always dismiss the negatives, then responsibility and accountability have no meaning. Every organization needs a few people who act as the org's mirror and conscience.

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#52

Post by clcaev »

watwut wrote: post #46
cj wrote: post #3

Similarly, once you’re looking for a new job, assuming you’re looking for roles with the same job title you had before, do everything you can to paint your previous job in a positive light even if it was miserable. If you don’t, interviewers are left wondering how to interpret your dissatisfaction at your previous job.

Newsflash, people looking for a job were either fired or unhappy about something. The insistence on hearing only pleasurable falsehoods is not healthy.

This isn't always true. However, in the cases where it was incidental, your hiring manager is likely to be an enthusiastic reference.

The harder case is when your performance is lagging and there is a reduction in force.

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#53

Post by bumby »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #23
eloisius wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an interviewer it's too hard to tell if a candidate was indeed a victim of circumstance, like an acquisition that turned into a shitty job, or if they are just a disgruntled malcontent who will also be disgruntled and malcontent at your company. The downside of hiring a malcontent is huge. An interviewer can assume that most quality candidates are also aware of this dynamic and will wisely choose to represent the…

> if they are just a disgruntled malcontent who will also be disgruntled and malcontent at your company. The downside of hiring a malcontent is huge. Honestly, I get much better along with malcontents than with these "annoyingly positive" people. So, tastes differ. > An interviewer can assume that most quality candidates are also aware of this dynamic and will wisely choose to represent the positive aspects of their…

I prefer positive people but can deal with complainers if they’re actively looking to make thinking better. The problem is when malcontents only bitch and rarely do anything about it. That creates a toxic environment.

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#54

Post by freejazz »

hobs wrote: post #6
cj wrote: post #3

Similarly, once you’re looking for a new job, assuming you’re looking for roles with the same job title you had before, do everything you can to paint your previous job in a positive light even if it was miserable. If you don’t, interviewers are left wondering how to interpret your dissatisfaction at your previous job.

Honestly, this is the most toxic thing about job interviews for me - "hey can we do the thing where you pretend you didn't have a string of shitty jobs for 5 years? because obviously you were at fault if they were shitty." Most jobs are pretty shitty, the idea that you need to demonstrate toxic positivity about how shitty it was is just so inauthentic.

You're already not getting past my first round.

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#55

Post by ctkhn »

kccqzy wrote: post #36
bityard wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In companies with highly compartmentalized roles, too much work to do, and annoying co-workers, it's easy to say, "that's not my problem, go away." (With a bit more diplomacy, I'd hope.) I have always prioritized trying to be the stereotypical helpful person who might not know the answer to your question, but usually knows who to ask. The more your name comes up in the context of "who knows how X works?", the better…

A lot of times that stereotypical helpful person is so helpful that junior people never learn to get rid of their dependence on that person. I know that because I've been that stereotypical helpful person. I realized something was amiss when a junior person who had been on the team for two years still came to me every other day to ask me questions. They spent minimal amount of effort thinking on their own, and then s…

There is an amount of this that needs to happen when you onboard to a team, but as new hires become more aware of the stack and where things are documented it should happen only for genuinely complicated things and the occasional brain fart. I have a junior who frequently asks me where things live in the code when you could ctrl-f to find the answer and it's pretty annoying.

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#56

Post by FitCodIa »

lolinder wrote: post #49
hobs wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and toxic positivity obliterates morale - being unable to acknowledge the negative outcomes of decisions means that you are just working towards some idiot's dream until you go play the roulette wheel again to figure out what the next people are not telling you about this place. This is what literally makes tech workers go dream about farming.

I have never had a work environment ruined by toxic positivity—the normal healthy human reaction to that kind of environment is gallows humor, which hits the sweet spot between acknowledging the problem and showing a willingness to be there with your team. I'm sure there are people out there who do have a toxic positivity problem, but my own anecdotal experience leads me to prefer to err on the side of rejecting unne…

> gallows humor

I think that may be a very cultural thing. I love gallows humor (I understand, enjoy, and cultivate it myself), but some cultures don't even understand it.

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#57

Post by alphazard »

In software, often the people are the source of stress. Building the software is easy to many in this industry, and the vast majority of the value produced came from someone who thought creating it was easy. Being surrounded by rock stars all doing something they find easy is sublime, and I encourage everyone to seek out those environments. They exist and are fleeting.

The stress comes from people who are bad at what they do and are trying to make it someone else's problem. They don't have vision for how they will accomplish what is asked of them. In their imagination, there is not a clear set of steps that can be burned down over the coming days and weeks to arrive at something of value. In their minds it is all chaos and uncertainty and they are desperate for the assurance of someone who knows what's going on.

The relationships that one develops with each category of person are fundamentally opposite. One is about enticing repeated interactions: You really get it, how do we work together in the future? And the other is about keeping a polite distance to prevent repeated interactions. How do I avoid meetings, projects, shared responsibilities, and future employment opportunities that involve this person?

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#58

Post by ctkhn »

steele wrote: post #12

Now rank your direct reports and select half a million of salary worth from the bottom quartile to right-size your team by COB. Details to follow. sent from my iPhone

Had this happen to me and a teammate after an onsite where we were explicitly told "our team is safe from layoffs"

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#59

Post by FitCodIa »

maccard wrote: post #28
hobs wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, this is the most toxic thing about job interviews for me - "hey can we do the thing where you pretend you didn't have a string of shitty jobs for 5 years? because obviously you were at fault if they were shitty." Most jobs are pretty shitty, the idea that you need to demonstrate toxic positivity about how shitty it was is just so inauthentic.

> most jobs are pretty shitty. If everywhere smells like shit, it’s time to check under your own shoe. I’ve had shitty jobs, snd while nowhere is perfect it’s definitely a stretch to say most jobs are shitty. > the idea that you need to demonstrate toxic positivity Nobody is asking you to do that. When I’m interviewing a candidate I’m assuming that this is a situation that they’re trying to impress/show themselves an…

> If everywhere smells like shit, it’s time to check under your own shoe.

LOL, are you kidding? The human condition is mostly shitty.

Re: In a high-stress work environment, prioritize relationships

#60

Post by CGMthrowaway »

jon-wood wrote: post #38
cj wrote: post #3

Similarly, once you’re looking for a new job, assuming you’re looking for roles with the same job title you had before, do everything you can to paint your previous job in a positive light even if it was miserable. If you don’t, interviewers are left wondering how to interpret your dissatisfaction at your previous job.

I think there's a degree to which this is true, I wouldn't walk into an interview and immediately start slagging off my old employer, but if you're interviewing me and get all worked up when I say bad things about them in answer to the question "why are you leaving your current job" that's on you and I won't regret not getting the job.

That's your choice. It's not a bad idea to answer "why are you leaving your current job" with "i'm looking for greater opportunities to [the opposite of why you are leaving your job]" and people can read between the lines AND have less of the concerns they would if you went guns blazing on the bridges behind you
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