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Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

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Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#101

Post by nmgycombinator »

TylerE wrote: post #87
muppetman wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I update an app I have to be told I downloaded it from the Internet and do I trust it. Can this app look on the local network? Constantly being nagged to the point I don't even check/care anymore. Exactly what Vista used to do.

The one that I find really obnoxious is granting permission to read from a “removable” drive. Like the one my steam library lives on.

How often do you face that? I would think the OS would save your response in a way it could refer back to.

Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#102

Post by mulmen »

xp84 wrote: post #92
Etheryte wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately many (most?) application developers don't know this either, and many of them go so far as to explicitly require their apps to be installed in /Applications, they simply won't work otherwise.

No comment on the overall topic, but I have long made a practice of installing into $HOME/Applications instead[1], and it's rare for me to encounter software that cares. A few apps have added popups to explain to beginners "Hey, you're running me from the Downloads folder, uhh, want me to properly move myself to /Applications/?" but that's about it. The only apps I run from /Applications that aren't part of the OS ar…

Now imagine that home directory was on your iPhone and you could plug it in to any Mac anywhere you went!

Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#103

Post by mulmen »

nmgycombinator wrote: post #91
cypherpunks01 wrote: post #78

Just recently learned I should be installing mac apps into my home directory Applications, not the system Applications (as every single app installer suggests). Of course, only makes sense for a single-user machine. If I downgrade myself to a non-admin user, and install apps into my home Applications, then I'm not bothered by permissions requests from apps to update themselves. Almost all of them can just do it, on t…

Fascinating! Personally, I need an admin account in my daily work, so I wouldn't do this, but for those it could help it definitely looks interesting.

You can still choose to install apps to ~/Applications if you are an admin.

Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#104

Post by whartung »

xp84 wrote: post #90

On the off-chance someone at Apple reads this, I'll repeat my perennial beg that Apple stops popping up 'Give me your (local admin) password right now' dialogs randomly throughout the day because the computer has a hankering to install updates or something. Anyone with basic skills can whip up a convincing replica of that popup on the Web, and the "bottom 80%" (at least) of users in technical savvy would not think to…

The thing I hate about these things is I have no idea why they’re asking this, and no idea what happens if I say No, even how to “manage” these settings should I wish to change it.

The UX is different from the apps saying “Hey, open the preferences panel and give us XXX” and there you can see the app, the capability toggle, decide to turn it on, or even go back to turn it back off.

These experiences have been why I’ve not a big fan of “capabilities” as a concept. The UX around them is awful, and almost has to be.

“Enable to enjoy your new app fully. “ This is what you get if the vendors have any say in what the messages should be.

Not really helpful.

Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#106

Post by lapcat »

From the beginning, TCC has been a house of cards. It only impedes legitimate developers and tortures users with permission prompts that Apple ridiculed back in the day, while malicious apps can easily bypass the "security" (theater) in countless ways that researchers continue to uncover and report. I'm not a professional security researcher, just a Mac developer, but I've discovered a number of bypasses myself. It's almost as if Apple engineers don't even understand the technology they're using. And maybe they don't! How many remain from the pre-iPhone era?

Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#107

Post by coolcase »

nmgycombinator wrote: post #47
coolcase wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And at $Corp I get constant popups to enter my password or confirm an action. Like 50-100 a day.

I bet threat actors are just salivating at the thought of giving you a fake password prompt.

Yeah. I am very hygienic at work in terms of what sites I visit but you can never be too careful. To me the main threat vector is my dev curiosity!

Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#108

Post by mrtesthah »

lapcat wrote: post #106

From the beginning, TCC has been a house of cards. It only impedes legitimate developers and tortures users with permission prompts that Apple ridiculed back in the day, while malicious apps can easily bypass the "security" (theater) in countless ways that researchers continue to uncover and report. I'm not a professional security researcher, just a Mac developer, but I've discovered a number of bypasses myself. It's…

The continuous incorporation of basic system features into TCC has drastically increased the friction of deploying enterprise management software on Macs (especially for education), to the point where I would question the overall value proposition.

I say this as a dedicated macOS (Cocoa) developer since 2003.

Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#110

Post by nmgycombinator »

mulmen wrote: post #103
nmgycombinator wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating! Personally, I need an admin account in my daily work, so I wouldn't do this, but for those it could help it definitely looks interesting.

You can still choose to install apps to ~/Applications if you are an admin.

I'll definitely start considering it.
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