Almost a year to release a patch. If Apple takes that long, there is no hope for other vendors.
Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?
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Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?
#32My work Mac regularly pops up an alert box claiming that Slack is “trying to install a new helper tool”. I have no idea why or what it means. I asked IT how I could verify it was legit and they didn’t know. I often wonder if this could also be exploited because it asks for a password and it keeps popping back up every time I click cancel.
That does sound like it could be exploited, but with only as much exploitability as some random app that requires your password (for analogy consider a Linux binary that refuses to run unless being run as root). Ultimately it's a matter of deciding whether you trust the developer of the app and whether you trust this app is really from that developer. The day Apple prevents users from giving root access to a third-ap…
Being paranoid, would it be possible that another app already installed (but not trusted enough to give privilege, let’s say a shady mouse driver or screenshot app) detect when slack (more trustfully) does launch to open a dialog at that precise time and deceive the user? Let’s say the shady app is named « SIack » or something close enough to be missed - but brand itself as innocents « screenshotPro4000 » in the app itself graphics so you’re not suspicious.
Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?
#33I once sent an email to Steve Jobs back in 2009 or so
I told him that the MacOS permissions dialog could easily be spoofed, and that Macs should have a secret phrase or icon that you choose that they’d display inside these dialogs, and prevent their screen capture like what they had been doing with their recent DRM features.
Never heard back from him
And it never got implemented. Any program can still continue to spoof it and grab your system password.
Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
This dialog comes from the System Management framework [1]. Slack is probably installing a privileged helper tool (conceptually similar to a setuid root binary) so that it can update itself regardless of where it is installed or which user originally installed it. [1]: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/servicemanagement/...
Discord does this as well I believe. I often needed to enter the administrator password to install a helper after the system had been off for a couple days.
And they are sooooo insistent. Just keep bugging you forever
Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?
#35Almost a year to release a patch. If Apple takes that long, there is no hope for other vendors.
This is Apple-specific, though. So there aren't really any other vendors that are relevant to this specific scenario. I will say, they have been quicker with my other reports; taking just a few months as opposed to a full year.
Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
These types of ‘security’ blockers are so dumb because they train people to act dumb. Even if they’re real, the next time they may not be. It’s like how my bank often calls and wants me to give them my personal info for ‘data protection’ before we can speak. These are legit bank calls, training people to give out personal info to strangers.
If someone cold calls me and asks me to verify myself, I refuse. If it’s an expected call or they give me a good reason to, I’ll call their listed contact number back. So far I have not missed out on anything of consequence by refusing to identify myself to someone who initiated contact with me.
I likewise refuse the bank’s call and they’re always really confused why I’d do such a thing - so clearly they have successfully trained all their other customers to be morons - and then they will no doubt blame them when they get conned.
Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?
#37I once sent an email to Steve Jobs back in 2009 or so I told him that the MacOS permissions dialog could easily be spoofed, and that Macs should have a secret phrase or icon that you choose that they’d display inside these dialogs, and prevent their screen capture like what they had been doing with their recent DRM features. Never heard back from him And it never got implemented. Any program can still continue to spo…
I mean, at that point and app could just put up a fake prompt using the UI framework. And I think users would be more hesitant to type a full password than just click a button. But if you're talking about a bug similar to mine where an attacker could use the OS's own code against it and make it show a prompt with misleading content, you might be able to report it to Apple Product Security and maybe get a bounty.
Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
These types of ‘security’ blockers are so dumb because they train people to act dumb. Even if they’re real, the next time they may not be. It’s like how my bank often calls and wants me to give them my personal info for ‘data protection’ before we can speak. These are legit bank calls, training people to give out personal info to strangers.
As of the latest macOS update, every app is now asking every few days if it can have access to devices on your local network, or something to that tune. My theory right now is it's something in chromium that automatically asking for this and Electron apps will do this out of the box, but I can't remember which apps exactly have been doing this. Regardless, yes it causes the exact issue you're talking about. I don't e…
I’m surprised Apple have let this happen.
When you make an iOS app and requested permission for something - photo library or location etc. you MUST write out a sentence of what you’ll use it for which is shown to the user.
Why not the same for Mac apps?
Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?
#39It took Apple a full year to release the fix. That is a very long time. 2024-05-04 I leave several additional update messages as I continue testing my PoC 2025-05-12 The patch is released
Yeah. I'm guessing there must be some legitimate (internal?) use cases for the behavior I found and they spent all that time working out the kinks to allow those edge cases while also not allowing malicious ones. Or perhaps it wasn't as high on their priority list as it required a higher level of user interaction (the user had to click "Allow"). In any case, though, I do believe that a year is a shockingly long time for them to take.
Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
Damn. That sounds pretty dystopian. But typical for American corporate life.
Why? Companies already have to retain the data (in case of lawsuits, etc.). Slack is also used because it allows to create persistent channels that are searchable. So they often end up being a knowledge base for the company.
I guess that's a fair point. It cuts both ways, but given that so many people use Slack as opposed to talking, the exact words people used and when are could be open to view. Whereas, before all of this, you may only just have the minutes of any official meetings. Any side chatter not in the meeting room and/or exact phrasings would be lost to time.