Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Plain Vanilla Web

plainvanillaweb.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

571–580 of 715 posts

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#571

Post by genewitch »

layer8 wrote: post #517
jonathanlb wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weirdly this is something similar to what Satya Nadella said. > Yeah, I mean, it’s a it’s a very, very, very important question, the SaaS applications, or biz apps. So let me just speak of our own dynamics. The approach at least we’re taking is, I think, the notion that business applications exist, that’s probably where they’ll all collapse, right in the agent era, because if you think about it, right, they are essen…

It sounds like he’s already smoking pot.

"Realistic Diction is Unrealistic"

Or

"If you ever want to make someone look dumb, quote them verbatim."

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#572

Post by whstl »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #428
const_cast wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in theory, producing json is just typically slower than producing HTML. It seems unintuitive, but traversing an object tree using reflection to generate json is just slower than using an HTML template, which is probably a rope data structure.

Rendering the template or JSON response is the last and probably often the least computationally expensive step though.

I guess the rendering itself is pretty much the same for both SPAs and MPAs, since in the end it can be pretty much the same markup, but the SPA is also at a disadvantage here because it has to combine template/components + JSON to generate the HTML :/

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#573

Post by int_19h »

sneak wrote: post #520
zzo38computer wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The web is supposed to degrade gracefully if you are missing browser features, up to and including images turned off. I agree. (This should also include CSS, TLS, cookies, and many other things; I often disable CSS, and it should work just as well if CSS is disabled just as much as if pictures or JavaScripts or cookies are disabled.) However, there are some uses where JavaScripts may be helpful e.g. if a web page h…

No, TLS should always be required. We should be moving away from plaintext anything on the wire, if for no other reason than privacy (but also for integrity, injecting scripts into an HTTP response is a nasty attack surface).

TLS shouldn't be required for as long as it remains a heavily centralized thing; to require it would give undue power to root certificate authorities.

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#574

Post by whstl »

const_cast wrote: post #280
whstl wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. In theory SPAs should be faster, but in practice rendering/sending the whole template is not as bad. And as you mention, both can be slow, due to the non-cached API/DB call, so...

Even in theory, producing json is just typically slower than producing HTML. It seems unintuitive, but traversing an object tree using reflection to generate json is just slower than using an HTML template, which is probably a rope data structure.

That reminds me of when I first benchmarked a Rails app and noticed that JSON rendering was significantly slower than the remote database call. No lie, jbuilder was taking about 80% of the request time for about 90% of all endpoints.

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#575

Post by int_19h »

DrScientist wrote: post #561
int_19h wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's both, really. HTML makes it really easy to do "corporate branded" fancy buttons, but you still have to jump through hoops to do something that could be done with a database and the stock data grid widget in <10 lines of code in VB or Delphi.

Are we really comparing 2 tier to three tier here? ( With the web effectively 3 tier by default ). That old VB code that queried the database directly wouldn't work well over a non-local network. ie there is a bit of apples and oranges comparison here.

You do have a point, but then again, think about how many corpnet apps are web apps these days, even though the network is local.

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#576

Post by hu3 »

doc_manhat wrote: post #6

Question - why would you do this in current year ? Is it that much more performant? I might be ignorant but frameworks seem to be the lingua franca for a reason - they make your life much easier to manage once set up!

What irks me about most about web frameworks is the error stack.

20 lines of anonymous function calling gibberish is so unpalatable.

It's hard to understand what is actual application code in these stacks.

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#577

Post by DrillShopper »

brazzy wrote: post #545
gotaqmyfriends wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the woodworking company ensure payment? Does the specialized nature ensure only "real" customers buy? Is there a trusted relationship? A threat of legal action? I know the other way around is basically the norm: how does one know the company, the seller, will actually provide the product after paying. But the prevailing culture, currently, is that companies in this regard are trustworthy and customers are no…

Not sure about the US, but in my country that's how mail order used to work for decades, and it's still pretty common to offer that payment option, though usually with some restrictions (e.g. not for your first order). Most people are not scammers and will pay simply because it's the right thing to do.If your margins are decent, you can just eat the loss to some scammers as the cost of doing business. Especially if t…

Cash on delivery (COD) used to be popular in the US for a lot of the mail order junk on television in the 70s to early 80s. The rise of the credit card for normal people was a cause of its decline because people now had a reliable way to pay over the phone when ordering said junk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash_on_delivery

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#578

Post by kiney »

joshvm wrote: post #540
bradly wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sell urns online and my website just has an email link. No shopping cart. A brick-and-mortor urn shop would never have a shopping cart, so why would a virtual one? I've purchased specialized woodworking tools online that simply involved filling out a form. I later received the parts with an invoice to send payment. You can simply not pay if you choose not to. There are so many way to do commerce both on and offline…

> I've purchased specialized woodworking tools online that simply involved filling out a form. I later received the parts with an invoice to send payment. You can simply not pay if you choose not to. Payment after receipt is very common in Switzerland, but fraud is presumably rare. Your name would probably go on the debtors register and that's the sort of bad credit history you don't want to have. At some point the p…

also kinda common in germany. Used to be much more common, but you still see it, especially in b2b, even for high value items

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#579

Post by bradly »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #514
bradly wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sell urns online and my website just has an email link. No shopping cart. A brick-and-mortor urn shop would never have a shopping cart, so why would a virtual one? I've purchased specialized woodworking tools online that simply involved filling out a form. I later received the parts with an invoice to send payment. You can simply not pay if you choose not to. There are so many way to do commerce both on and offline…

> You can simply not pay if you choose not to. It's only a matter of time before this seller falls victim to a scammer - once they're found. I used to work for a book publisher who started doing their own e-commerce, and at the time one of the payment methods was a "pay later" one that predated the internet ("acceptgiro"). It only took a few months (if that) after the first sites went live that someone placed an orde…

Unfortunately, fraud is a part of business. During my time at Intuit, Apple, and Shopify fraud was a huge part of everything I worked on. When I was a teenager working at a gas station people would just run out the door with a 24 pack of beer.

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#580

Post by vaylian »

int_19h wrote: post #567
kdbuck wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, http only. Tell me you are a site from the before time without telling me you are a site from the before time.

What value would HTTPS possibly add to the website in question?

It makes it harder for ISPs to inject ads: https://superuser.com/questions/1087669/blocking-the-isps-ad...
Post reply on HN