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Plain Vanilla Web

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Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#431

Post by phillsav »

bradly wrote: post #340
bob1029 wrote: post #291

I've transcended the vanilla/framework arguments in favor of "do we even need a website for this?". I've discovered that when you start getting really cynical about the actual need for a web application - especially in B2B SaaS - you may become surprised at how far you can take the business without touching a browser. A vast majority of the hours I've spent building web sites & applications has been devoted to admini…

I sell urns online and my website just has an email link. No shopping cart. A brick-and-mortor urn shop would never have a shopping cart, so why would a virtual one? I've purchased specialized woodworking tools online that simply involved filling out a form. I later received the parts with an invoice to send payment. You can simply not pay if you choose not to. There are so many way to do commerce both on and offline…

In your case, perhaps a shopping cart could increase conversion, perhaps not.

While an e-commerce solution is not always needed, there’s a good chance that a very simple shop cart facility will convert more than an email link, for certain types of products.

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#432

Post by least »

bob1029 wrote: post #389
AdieuToLogic wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've discovered that when you start getting really cynical about the actual need for a web application - especially in B2B SaaS - you may become surprised at how far you can take the business without touching a browser. Enabling customer self administration/configuration of a "B2B SaaS" system mandates some form of interaction. I would be surprised at how many would not expect "touching a browser" to do so. > A vas…

> In short, while letting customers send Excel files "and then load+merge their results directly into the same SQL tables" might sound nice, this does not scale and will certainly result in a failure state at some point. Much of US banking operates almost entirely on this premise and has done so forever. > error detection/reporting, business workflows, and/or role-based access control. I'd take a look at the Nacha (A…

That the system works does not mean that individual components of it are advisable. It works because it must and that is with great development effort to keep these interfaces working.

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#433

Post by bradly »

Aurornis wrote: post #427
bradly wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sell urns online and my website just has an email link. No shopping cart. A brick-and-mortor urn shop would never have a shopping cart, so why would a virtual one? I've purchased specialized woodworking tools online that simply involved filling out a form. I later received the parts with an invoice to send payment. You can simply not pay if you choose not to. There are so many way to do commerce both on and offline…

> I've purchased specialized woodworking tools online that simply involved filling out a form. I later received the parts with an invoice to send payment. You can simply not pay if you choose not to. People romanticize businesses like this but there’s a reason you’re not posting the link. It only works when it’s for a small group of people who are in the know and refer trusted buyers. It’s also trivial to set up any…

> People romanticize businesses like this but there’s a reason you’re not posting the link

You are correct that I was a worried about an HN hug of orders for brass tacks.

> I guess I’ve spent enough time dealing with things like non-payment or doing work for trades that never arrive that I just don’t romanticize this stuff any more.

In this case there isn't much of a choice. When the last manufacture of brass tacks closed down, John bought the machinery and is the only place I know of to get proper shaker-style brass tacks in the US. I wanted the tacks, so I had no choice in the method of payment.

I understand your sentiment but it was perfectly normal to pump gas before paying in the U.S. for a very long time and still is in many places. In other cities it is unheard of. Restaurants we can still eat before paying, but not many other places still give consumers much trust.

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#434

Post by gotaqmyfriends »

bradly wrote: post #429
gotaqmyfriends wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the woodworking company ensure payment? Does the specialized nature ensure only "real" customers buy? Is there a trusted relationship? A threat of legal action? I know the other way around is basically the norm: how does one know the company, the seller, will actually provide the product after paying. But the prevailing culture, currently, is that companies in this regard are trustworthy and customers are no…

> How does the woodworking company ensure payment? Does the specialized nature ensure only "real" customers buy? Yes, I believe it does. These are highly specific brass tacks for making oval shaker boxes. There are very few manufactures of a proper #2 brass tack these days, so I would very much want to stay on the good side and any suppliers. I think they said in their faq that twice they haven't been paid in 20 year…

Sad to hear. Thanks for the info.

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#436

Post by AdieuToLogic »

frontfor wrote: post #421
bob1029 wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In short, while letting customers send Excel files "and then load+merge their results directly into the same SQL tables" might sound nice, this does not scale and will certainly result in a failure state at some point. Much of US banking operates almost entirely on this premise and has done so forever. > error detection/reporting, business workflows, and/or role-based access control. I'd take a look at the Nacha (A…

> Much of US banking operates almost entirely on this premise and has done so forever. I've had the same epiphany when I worked for a fintech startup that interacts with financial institutions. Having a website just isn't necessary for some of the day-to-day operations vs just sending CSV/Excel files back and forth for reconciliation, settlement, accounting purposes.

> Having a website just isn't necessary for some of the day-to-day operations vs just sending CSV/Excel files back and forth for reconciliation, settlement, accounting purposes.

This doesn't end well when there are hundreds of thousands of "reconciliation, settlement, accounting purposes" to support.

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#437

Post by mannycalavera42 »

bob1029 wrote: post #291

I've transcended the vanilla/framework arguments in favor of "do we even need a website for this?". I've discovered that when you start getting really cynical about the actual need for a web application - especially in B2B SaaS - you may become surprised at how far you can take the business without touching a browser. A vast majority of the hours I've spent building web sites & applications has been devoted to admini…

> >

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#438

Post by Aurornis »

bradly wrote: post #433
Aurornis wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've purchased specialized woodworking tools online that simply involved filling out a form. I later received the parts with an invoice to send payment. You can simply not pay if you choose not to. People romanticize businesses like this but there’s a reason you’re not posting the link. It only works when it’s for a small group of people who are in the know and refer trusted buyers. It’s also trivial to set up any…

> People romanticize businesses like this but there’s a reason you’re not posting the link You are correct that I was a worried about an HN hug of orders for brass tacks. > I guess I’ve spent enough time dealing with things like non-payment or doing work for trades that never arrive that I just don’t romanticize this stuff any more. In this case there isn't much of a choice. When the last manufacture of brass tacks c…

> I understand your sentiment but it was perfectly normal to pump gas before paying in the U.S. for a very long time and still is in many places.

I had a friend who worked at a gas station in high school. Filing police reports for people who filled up and left without paying was a standard part of operations.

This was in a nice area, too. Often people just forgot and drove away. They had recourse because they had security cameras and people had license plates. The cities where you’re forced to pay inside first probably have police departments that don’t respond to non-payment as gas stations.

If someone showed up with a gas can or something they were instructed to shut off the pump and make them come inside to pay. It wasn’t as much of an honor system as it seems if you’re not familiar with it.

You can’t have a pay-later business without an amount of non-payment, which has to be compensated by higher prices (which other customers shoulder).

These are all choices a vendor can make. Something like this usually lasts right up until the secret gets out to a wider audience where the people who don’t care about social norms have no problem abusing a system left wide open.

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#439

Post by hliyan »

bob1029 wrote: post #291

I've transcended the vanilla/framework arguments in favor of "do we even need a website for this?". I've discovered that when you start getting really cynical about the actual need for a web application - especially in B2B SaaS - you may become surprised at how far you can take the business without touching a browser. A vast majority of the hours I've spent building web sites & applications has been devoted to admini…

I think of something similar every time I use the Uber Eats 'track order' screen. All I need is a simple textual history:

    7:40 - Bob was delayed by 5 minutes. ETA 7.45
    7:35 - Bob is heading your way. ETA 7:40
    7:20 - Bob has picked up your order from Pizza place

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#440

Post by notfed »

chenster wrote: post #378
pelagicAustral wrote: post #14

I work for about 2k users, they do not give a shit about reactivity... build a monolith, make it comfy, embrace page refresh (nobody gives a fuck about that in the real world), and get shit done.

Still the case in most Asian countries where UIs are all Craigslist alike and UX is just shit. People just got use to it. Apparently westerns willing to pay a premium for better UX. It's a culture gap.

Side note but as a buyer looking to buy used tools from locals, Craigslist's UX could not be better. I just started using it recently (after forgetting about it for a decade). Absolutely the opposite of shit.

Though I think maybe if one is using it for a different purpose, like looking for apartments or roommates then that's probably shit.

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