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Plain Vanilla Web

plainvanillaweb.com

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Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#411

Post by SoftTalker »

bob1029 wrote: post #389
AdieuToLogic wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've discovered that when you start getting really cynical about the actual need for a web application - especially in B2B SaaS - you may become surprised at how far you can take the business without touching a browser. Enabling customer self administration/configuration of a "B2B SaaS" system mandates some form of interaction. I would be surprised at how many would not expect "touching a browser" to do so. > A vas…

> In short, while letting customers send Excel files "and then load+merge their results directly into the same SQL tables" might sound nice, this does not scale and will certainly result in a failure state at some point. Much of US banking operates almost entirely on this premise and has done so forever. > error detection/reporting, business workflows, and/or role-based access control. I'd take a look at the Nacha (A…

Yep an early project of mine was building an import of account charges from an FTP file transmission. There was plenty of checking and validation, any records that didn't pass were rejected and the user got notified (I think via email) with the rejected records and the reasons. They could then correct them and resubmit.

Granted the only real security was the FTP username and password, but it was all internal and at the time (1990s) that was good enough.

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#412

Post by emseetech »

sanderjd wrote: post #404
emseetech wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Success for the current requirements? Or success for an imagined future?

For an imagined future. If you're building something with specifications, then what are we even talking about? You know what you need to build so just build that. But this thread is about what to do when you don't know. "Start the simplest way" is not always the right answer, because you have some information about what you plan or want or hope to build, so you can use that information. Not everything is a set of hyp…

We have a fundamental difference of philosophy.

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#413

Post by AdieuToLogic »

bob1029 wrote: post #389
AdieuToLogic wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've discovered that when you start getting really cynical about the actual need for a web application - especially in B2B SaaS - you may become surprised at how far you can take the business without touching a browser. Enabling customer self administration/configuration of a "B2B SaaS" system mandates some form of interaction. I would be surprised at how many would not expect "touching a browser" to do so. > A vas…

> In short, while letting customers send Excel files "and then load+merge their results directly into the same SQL tables" might sound nice, this does not scale and will certainly result in a failure state at some point. Much of US banking operates almost entirely on this premise and has done so forever. > error detection/reporting, business workflows, and/or role-based access control. I'd take a look at the Nacha (A…

>> In short, while letting customers send Excel files "and then load+merge their results directly into the same SQL tables" might sound nice, this does not scale and will certainly result in a failure state at some point.

> Much of US banking operates almost entirely on this premise and has done so forever.

This is a disingenuous statement as it relates to at least credit/debit/gift card transactions. Bank-to-bank and select high-volume Merchants communicate in certain circumstances with secure file transfers, especially for daily settlements.

The vast majority of Merchants do not, and instead rely on secure web applications to authorize, capture, and settle their transactions.

Perhaps other banking domains rely on Excel and similar to do business. I cannot speak to those business areas.

> I'd take a look at the Nacha (ACH) operating rules if you have any doubt that sophisticated business workflows can be built on top of flat files and asynchronous transmission.

And I'd recommend you take a look at different integration - online payment processing using Oribtal as described by Oracle.

https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E69185_01/cwdirect/pdf/180/cwdire...

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#414

Post by paulmooreparks »

chenster wrote: post #377
landgenoot wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved to south east Asia and the phenomenon of a "hotline" openend my eyes. Every business is basically a phone number that you can message. It does not matter if you buy a pizza or furniture, book a hotel or need someone to clean your sofa. No website. No need to fill in forms. No platform fee.

In south east asia, people dont' have very good phone or even smart phone in that matter, txt msg makes sense. The same to many african countries where dumb phones are still dominant.

I live in Singapore and travel to Malaysia, Indonesia, and Thailand quite a bit. What you say is certainly not what I observe.

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#415

Post by KPGv2 »

landgenoot wrote: post #365
bob1029 wrote: post #291

I've transcended the vanilla/framework arguments in favor of "do we even need a website for this?". I've discovered that when you start getting really cynical about the actual need for a web application - especially in B2B SaaS - you may become surprised at how far you can take the business without touching a browser. A vast majority of the hours I've spent building web sites & applications has been devoted to admini…

I moved to south east Asia and the phenomenon of a "hotline" openend my eyes. Every business is basically a phone number that you can message. It does not matter if you buy a pizza or furniture, book a hotel or need someone to clean your sofa. No website. No need to fill in forms. No platform fee.

Can it work that way? Of course.

But just because it works that way there, doesn't mean it's right. There's nothing about SEA that implies to me the pinnacle of operational efficiency.

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#416

Post by SoftTalker »

getnormality wrote: post #303
bob1029 wrote: post #291

I've transcended the vanilla/framework arguments in favor of "do we even need a website for this?". I've discovered that when you start getting really cynical about the actual need for a web application - especially in B2B SaaS - you may become surprised at how far you can take the business without touching a browser. A vast majority of the hours I've spent building web sites & applications has been devoted to admini…

This is how 100% B2B worked before there was B2B SaaS, and it's still how 99% of B2B works today.

Yep. EDI and FTP.

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#417

Post by zelphirkalt »

spoonsort wrote: post #142
pelagicAustral wrote: post #14

I work for about 2k users, they do not give a shit about reactivity... build a monolith, make it comfy, embrace page refresh (nobody gives a fuck about that in the real world), and get shit done.

Not going to lie, that's a pretty out of touch opinion in the current decade, where most software feels an order of magnitude slower and less reactive than a mechanical device made 120 years ago.

Most of that software are bloated SPAs that somehow manage to be slower than a complete page reload of any website or app, that is rendered server side using any traditional web framework statically rendering HTML templates.

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#418

Post by docuru »

I've learned that people use what they familiar with.

At first, I learned and use plain HTML/CSS/PHP and I thought that was good. At college, they taught .NET framework and for some years, that was my go to techstack. Then I started to learn about more languages and frameworks. At some point, it's hard to switch between them

Now I stick with one thing, unless that platform doesn't support it. This also allow me to be a lot more productive since I know most of the thing needed to be done

Sure I can start with vanilla web, or some new framework but it'll take a lot more of time and just not worth it

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#419

Post by SoftTalker »

coolcase wrote: post #230
sofixa wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both were absurdly slow and resource intensive.

My experience circa. 2008/9 was it was fine (used it on a commercial app in lieu of good enough web standards for the featureset). It was fast and reactive for an app-like experience. Games were made in flash so it can't be that slow. Maybe slow for time to load. I think we got that down a bit and this wasn't to render content but a utility for a signed up user.

It was OK on Windows. It sucked on any other platform. And it was a security disaster.

Re: Plain Vanilla Web

#420

Post by zie »

AdieuToLogic wrote: post #382
bob1029 wrote: post #291

I've transcended the vanilla/framework arguments in favor of "do we even need a website for this?". I've discovered that when you start getting really cynical about the actual need for a web application - especially in B2B SaaS - you may become surprised at how far you can take the business without touching a browser. A vast majority of the hours I've spent building web sites & applications has been devoted to admini…

> I've discovered that when you start getting really cynical about the actual need for a web application - especially in B2B SaaS - you may become surprised at how far you can take the business without touching a browser. Enabling customer self administration/configuration of a "B2B SaaS" system mandates some form of interaction. I would be surprised at how many would not expect "touching a browser" to do so. > A vas…

Generally in the excel load process, one does sanity checks. However your database can do all the checking if you so wish. CHECK() gets you quite far. If you have PostgreSQL(PG) or some other advanced SQL database, you can even go forth with functions and views and triggers and everything else.

We execute Python in our PG database and do testing through PGTAP.

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