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Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

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Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#341

Post by signatoremo »

timewizard wrote: post #179
HPsquared wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are safety standards for automobile software: ISO 26262. Software for steering or braking systems is of high quality. It's not the same team that does the infotainment.

> ISO 26262. That is a piece of paper. > Software for steering or braking systems is of high quality. There's literally no way for me to know that before I trust my life with it.

You literally trust your life with medical devices full of software, those that conform to “piece of paper” standards, such as ISO 15708

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#342

Post by seanmcdirmid »

gerdesj wrote: post #335
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Horns were disabled in Chongqing at least a couple of decades ago. I’m not sure what it’s like now though, but the government in China can and will deal with excessive horning using means we wouldn’t consider in the west.

Although things are a bit shit in many places, I do love our planet and the weird and wonderful ways it works. Were car horns disabled (broken deliberately) in Chongqing?

20 years ago each city/province was basically its own closed market. So if you were driving a car in CQ, it was probably bought and even made in CQ. They simply required that the horns be disabled.

China internally is much more of a free market now, so I’m not sure how they could just disable horns anymore, although you still can’t get away with driving an outside register vehicle inside a city for very long without getting a crackdown by the police (meaning, they can enforce inspection requirements fairly easily).

I’m not sure if it was really Chongqing or some other obscure city like Dalian, I’m going by hearsay 20+ years ago. More recently, Shanghai banned honking in most circumstances in 2007 (inside its outer ring), but it’s enforced with just fines.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#343

Post by andrewflnr »

garyfirestorm wrote: post #336
averageRoyalty wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the concept, but the question I have is why? These companies have huge wallets, and can surely scoop up a smaller automative microcontroller company and bring it in-house? It seems like a problem than enough money could solve quickly, but they've been doing horribly at this for decades now.

I work in one of the big three - the culture here is more waterfall and less agile. They decided at some point ‘we don’t need to be experts in building systems, we should only be good at spec’cing them and putting them together’ This leads to a mindset of relying on suppliers for changing even one line of code and at their mercy. Talent leaves because they didn’t get to do any of the fun stuff. And you’re left with b…

> They decided at some point ‘we don’t need to be experts in building systems...

So they've just chosen death. Fantastic, great to hear.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#344

Post by owenversteeg »

archon wrote: post #135
lttlrck wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slate have done this and it's really quite compelling. You even get window winders. https://www.slate.auto/en/personalization

"Have done this" implies Slate has delivered even one vehicle. They have not. I hope Slate succeeds, but let's not get caught up in the preorder hype.

I don't even think they've built a single prototype. I'd be happy to be corrected but last time I checked, none of the "prototype" shells they showed off had a powertrain.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#346

Post by typewithrhythm »

jwr wrote: post #339
typewithrhythm wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is only half the story, working for a major vendor, we sell both hardware and software, the whole way up to a full customisable well integrated platform. The manufacturers are deliberately choosing less capable systems, or taking thing piecemeal. Most of our customers simply don't believe good interfaces are worth the money... They tend to either want either a set of features checked off (only for existence, not…

> customers simply don't believe good interfaces are worth the money I guess I'm in the minority, then, but as a data point: I own a VW ID.4 and I'd pay significantly more to get software that isn't such a burning dumpster tire fire. And no, the excuses provided in this thread don't cut it. To be clear: it doesn't even annoy me anymore that the infotainment is slow and crappy, I've gotten used to it and I just never…

There are other competitors for that segment, even the Q4e on the same platform has better UI. People still buy the ID4 because it's not enough of a deciding factor.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#347

Post by bluGill »

mschuster91 wrote: post #80
bluGill wrote: post #71

Why does your car need an internet connection? I don't use the built in maps since my phone has a map and a connection. what is the killer app of a connected car? businesses might want to watch their fleet but does anyone else care

> Why does your car need an internet connection? It requires at least a basic cellular module for eCall in Europe since 2018, so car manufacturers use the already present hardware to provide more services. Maps and updates (live traffic view), internet hotspots for passengers (IIRC, Tesla does that one), entertainment that doesn't rely on a phone, firmware updates, feedback of driving data to insurances (yes, some in…

Let me ask it a different way. when the cell carriers turn off the xG towers and those features fail to work will you spend your own money to get the replacement controller or just do without

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#348

Post by lotsofpulp »

potato3732842 wrote: post #305
ak217 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mazda also managed to squander a huge brand and structural advantage by falling into lockstep behind other Japanese automakers in underinvesting in EV manufacturing infrastructure. Now they have to rely on their JV partner Changan to lead the way in producing EVs, giving up the core structural strengths that Mazda previously had in designing and building their own components - including software and controls, which i…

While that might affect their market share in HN neighborhoods I assure you Mazda is making money hand over fist selling their boring non-hybrid SUVs to normal people. People love them and they sell.

They have a low single digit percentage profit margin. That is not making money hand over fist, that is barely surviving.

https://www.mazda.com/content/dam/mazda/corporate/mazda-com/...

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#349

Post by doodlebugging »

garyfirestorm wrote: post #336
averageRoyalty wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the concept, but the question I have is why? These companies have huge wallets, and can surely scoop up a smaller automative microcontroller company and bring it in-house? It seems like a problem than enough money could solve quickly, but they've been doing horribly at this for decades now.

I work in one of the big three - the culture here is more waterfall and less agile. They decided at some point ‘we don’t need to be experts in building systems, we should only be good at spec’cing them and putting them together’ This leads to a mindset of relying on suppliers for changing even one line of code and at their mercy. Talent leaves because they didn’t get to do any of the fun stuff. And you’re left with b…

> They go for cheapest component they can spec for a given feature cutting 4MB memory will save 5 cents per car, we sell half a million cars, that’s big savings!

I'm tired. Been out in the sun all day. Explain this to me please.

When I do the math I get 500000 * $0.05 = $25000

That's a small drop in a large bucket of their gross income or net profits.

EDIT: Harsh sun must've burned a few of my processors. I see now that this would only be one small change that saved an inconsequential amount of money. But each group is incentivized to produce minor changes like this that save small amounts and that those amounts do add to substantial savings and help complete the process of enshittification of the ownership and driving experience for those who choose to buy one of these vehicles.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#350

Post by joezydeco »

majormajor wrote: post #313
joezydeco wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you implement CarPlay now without the MFI chip?

AFAICT USB-C iPhones don't have the same restrictions as lightning ones - https://9to5mac.com/2023/09/15/iphone-15-usb-c-port-compatib...

That's just for cables, I think you still need MFI (and all the paperwork and approvals and cost and the chip itself) that go with it if you want to implement a CarPlay receiver.
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