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Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

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Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#111

Post by amanaplanacanal »

mpweiher wrote: post #103
insane_dreamer wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

We're saving ca 10 million people from the actual genocide the Arabs have been trying to perpetrate against Israel since at least 1948. There is no genocide, attempted or not, in the other direction. In fact, the IDF has a non-combatant/combatant casualty ratio of around 1.2 : 1, which is by far the best (lowest) in the world. Typical is around 10:1.

What about the ethnic cleansing they are currently planning? That used to be considered a no-no, now I guess it's just fine.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#112

Post by klunger »

alternatex wrote: post #60
ykonstant wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about defense, but on mathstodon people are having bitter laughs over the "500 million for research", when the UK alone with its faltering economy manages to get multiple times that in the same time frame.

Is it 500 million for research or 500 million for luring US researchers to Europe? They are vastly different things so we need to be on the same page for this to be a productive discussion.

It 500 mil to lure US researchers. They say "from every country" because they have to, but we know why it was made and who will get most of it.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#113

Post by dingnuts »

mpweiher wrote: post #104
Gazoche wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the love of everything, CHATGPT IS NOT A PRIMARY SOURCE. Always assume every fact it spits out is made up.

Good thing then that I didn't use it as a primary source. :-)

it's not a source at all, it's definitionally bullshit because the LLM has no concern for the truth. Never post LLM text. Anyone can get that for themselves. To do so is an insult to the comment section. I'm not here to read bot summaries. If you ask the bot something and then it leads you to a source and then you read that and then you put that in your own words, that's a comment worth reading.

what you did is like farting in a crowded space. STINKY AND RUDE

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#114

Post by subscribed »

atemerev wrote: post #74
egisspegis wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is the difference? Maybe the difference is the fact that russia invaded Ukraine and is murdering, raping and pillaging there? Or maybe the fact that most of russian society is actively supporting that invasion? But those are just my opinion. I guess we'll never now what's the difference :)

Well, American society supports Trump, right? and Trump wants to invade Canada and Denmark. No, "Russian society" is not a monolith supporting the war of aggression. Just like American society is not all like their government officials and quite many people there do not support the autocratic course. Though yes, even here on Hacker News you can meet supporters of both. Sadly. Yes, it is alarming that many people in R…

American troops are not raping their way through Canada now, are they? They are not systematically aiming bombs at schools, churches, hospitals? They are not committing the war crimes already[1], are they? They didn't kidnap hundred of thousand of Canadian or Danish people, right?

Wth are you on? How is the unhinged and massively unpopular president comparable to the majority of the Russian society consistently showing the support to rape and war crimes?

Small minority of the American residents support kidnapping and trafficking of the other residents and citizens.

These two are not comparable.

[1] unless we add steadfast support for the genocide and war crimes of the Israel, but then we could add all the atrocities Russia supports in Syria and Africa in general.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#115

Post by atemerev »

subscribed wrote: post #114
atemerev wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, American society supports Trump, right? and Trump wants to invade Canada and Denmark. No, "Russian society" is not a monolith supporting the war of aggression. Just like American society is not all like their government officials and quite many people there do not support the autocratic course. Though yes, even here on Hacker News you can meet supporters of both. Sadly. Yes, it is alarming that many people in R…

American troops are not raping their way through Canada now, are they? They are not systematically aiming bombs at schools, churches, hospitals? They are not committing the war crimes already[1], are they? They didn't kidnap hundred of thousand of Canadian or Danish people, right? Wth are you on? How is the unhinged and massively unpopular president comparable to the majority of the Russian society consistently showi…

Universal quantifiers are not useful in this discussion.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#116

Post by egisspegis »

atemerev wrote: post #74
egisspegis wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is the difference? Maybe the difference is the fact that russia invaded Ukraine and is murdering, raping and pillaging there? Or maybe the fact that most of russian society is actively supporting that invasion? But those are just my opinion. I guess we'll never now what's the difference :)

Well, American society supports Trump, right? and Trump wants to invade Canada and Denmark. No, "Russian society" is not a monolith supporting the war of aggression. Just like American society is not all like their government officials and quite many people there do not support the autocratic course. Though yes, even here on Hacker News you can meet supporters of both. Sadly. Yes, it is alarming that many people in R…

I didn't say all. I said many.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#117

Post by carstenhag »

BrawnyBadger53 wrote: post #87
mpweiher wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Europe has spent more on Ukraine than the US. - Europe has, sadly, also been the main sender of aid to, effectively, Hamas. I wish they would stop.

Food and water aid being controversial is a bit ridiculous to me.

AFAIK the usual counter point to this is "Hamas could decide to not buy weapons, instead buy water & food. But they don't". - I don't know what is more truthy, just mentioning it.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#118

Post by carstenhag »

perihelions wrote: post #21

You people are too good at critical thinking to read "an investment of 500 million euros between 2025 and 2027" and not instantly write this off as empty grandstanding. How much does—or did, recently—the United States federal government invest in scientists in the USA? Is it ~$70 billion a year? [0] Europe can achieve America's (past) results when Europe starts talking with money. Science migration has historically g…

Why do you think money is the ultimate motivator? It's proven that after some salary amount, you no longer get (much, if at all) happier. And if US politics is affecting you in a bad way, a salary hit will be totally fine.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#119

Post by akkad33 »

carstenhag wrote: post #118
perihelions wrote: post #21

You people are too good at critical thinking to read "an investment of 500 million euros between 2025 and 2027" and not instantly write this off as empty grandstanding. How much does—or did, recently—the United States federal government invest in scientists in the USA? Is it ~$70 billion a year? [0] Europe can achieve America's (past) results when Europe starts talking with money. Science migration has historically g…

Why do you think money is the ultimate motivator? It's proven that after some salary amount, you no longer get (much, if at all) happier. And if US politics is affecting you in a bad way, a salary hit will be totally fine.

In the range of peanuts that Europe pays, money is a great motivator! Sometimes it's not much better than minimum wage, like in France

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#120

Post by Axsuul »

JimTheMan wrote: post #70
geremiiah wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My post was arguing that the "everything else" is more attractive in the US. Consider a post doc or junior professor who do not know if they will ever get a tenure position or if you even want to remain in academia their whole life. Their plan B is to get an job in industry. Now consider having access to the whole US job market vs. having access to one tiny EU country. Not to mention that when you bias for cutting ed…

They have access to the whole European union? People value not having to step over the homeless to get to work, lower crime, free healthcare, no risk of deportation for having a view on Palestine etc etc The US isn't that pleasant of a place to live.

All those things you mention are certainly bad in some parts of US but not most.
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