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Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

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Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#81

Post by diogocp »

JimTheMan wrote: post #70
geremiiah wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My post was arguing that the "everything else" is more attractive in the US. Consider a post doc or junior professor who do not know if they will ever get a tenure position or if you even want to remain in academia their whole life. Their plan B is to get an job in industry. Now consider having access to the whole US job market vs. having access to one tiny EU country. Not to mention that when you bias for cutting ed…

They have access to the whole European union? People value not having to step over the homeless to get to work, lower crime, free healthcare, no risk of deportation for having a view on Palestine etc etc The US isn't that pleasant of a place to live.

> They have access to the whole European union?

Only if they are EU citizens.

> People value not having to step over the homeless to get to work

Better stay away from Paris, then.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#82

Post by pqtyw »

Epa095 wrote: post #72
pqtyw wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the links came from the ChatGPT answer as well?

For me that does not change anything really. I assert the trustworthyness of the webpage as usual. My problem is the statement from chatgpt. I have seen it invent enough bullshit that if it was a person I would have labeled them as untrustworthy a long time ago. Yes yes, it's also amazing and all that jazz, but I still don't know how to trust a 'Chatgpt told me this' - quote.

I do get it. However it's hardly any different or less trustworthy than a random person making a random claim identical to what ChatGPT would say.

Of course a 'Chatgpt told me this' disclaimer does indicate something, i.e. either that person has no clue about the topic and is unable to verify the answer at least to some extent on their own and is just blindly copy pasting something and/or believes that anything LLMs say is inherently credible on its own without extra verification.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#83

Post by eGP9jDq_nw »

rednafi wrote: post #7

Europe really needs to fix the funding issue and language fragmentation. Otherwise there's no "luring people in." Every time someone brings this up, a bunch of people are like, "Have you ever worked in the EU? They all speak English at work." Yes, I have, and also on three other continents. Europe hasn’t adopted English at work that much, and no one I know is excited about dealing with racism, picking up the local la…

Europe's cultural and linguistic diversity is a feature, not a bug. Anyone unwilling to acquire a nation's national tongue is unfit for migration to begin with and the primary cause for rising anti-migration sentiment across the continent

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#84

Post by subscribed »

pqtyw wrote: post #49
Epa095 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I salute you for being open about the chatgpt use! Do you really trust what it says? That quoted chatgpt-number has zero value to me. The other numbers are valuable, since they come from actual sources.

What if the links came from the ChatGPT answer as well?

It's well known for making the stuff up because this is how it works

The Guardian found a article attributed to them, generated (not "written") by chatgpt.

A silly lawyer got into trouble trying to use chatgpt-generated precedences in court.

Everything chatgpt prints out is made up, and that includes links.

Seriously, heed the warning the company itself prominently prints I app and in the webui.

Chatgpt may print out mostly true made-up sentences, but by definition, because oh how it works, it doesn't generate truth. It generates tokens that make up words.

Chatgpt is not a RAG, come on, it's 2025!

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#85

Post by rad_gruchalski »

perihelions wrote: post #21

You people are too good at critical thinking to read "an investment of 500 million euros between 2025 and 2027" and not instantly write this off as empty grandstanding. How much does—or did, recently—the United States federal government invest in scientists in the USA? Is it ~$70 billion a year? [0] Europe can achieve America's (past) results when Europe starts talking with money. Science migration has historically g…

Yeah, but who cares about that higher salary when the risk is that you get a random letter saying “self-deport or who knows maybe we send you to some prison in Ecuador or some other El Salvador”.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#86

Post by squigz »

geremiiah wrote: post #66
perihelions wrote: post #21

You people are too good at critical thinking to read "an investment of 500 million euros between 2025 and 2027" and not instantly write this off as empty grandstanding. How much does—or did, recently—the United States federal government invest in scientists in the USA? Is it ~$70 billion a year? [0] Europe can achieve America's (past) results when Europe starts talking with money. Science migration has historically g…

It's about money and everything else too. US is a really nice country to live in for high skilled individuals. An immigrant nation who speaks the international language, a fast growing economy, especially in cutting edge tech, with overall taxes lower than Europe and even the housing market crisis is not at bad as what you will encounter in many European cities. And its huge so for a lot of emigrants looking for a ne…

Don't most people in Denmark - and pretty much all Nordic countries - speak English?

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#87

Post by BrawnyBadger53 »

mpweiher wrote: post #37
fooker wrote: post #22

Europe does every thing except the only needed thing, paying up. Not just for this, same for finding startups, helping Ukraine or Palestine.

- Europe has spent more on Ukraine than the US. - Europe has, sadly, also been the main sender of aid to, effectively, Hamas. I wish they would stop.

Food and water aid being controversial is a bit ridiculous to me.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#88

Post by rad_gruchalski »

Epa095 wrote: post #73
mpweiher wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you really trust what it says? "Really trust"? Nope. But I think it gives me a good ballpark estimate and ways to check if that estimate is about right or not. Checking the answer is quicker and potentially less error-prone than compiling the answer.

Ok, so did you verify the 500 billion? If so, then that's really the relevant part for me. But then I trust you, not Chatgpt.

Where did you take the 500 billion figure from?

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#89

Post by throw-the-towel »

JimTheMan wrote: post #70
geremiiah wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My post was arguing that the "everything else" is more attractive in the US. Consider a post doc or junior professor who do not know if they will ever get a tenure position or if you even want to remain in academia their whole life. Their plan B is to get an job in industry. Now consider having access to the whole US job market vs. having access to one tiny EU country. Not to mention that when you bias for cutting ed…

They have access to the whole European union? People value not having to step over the homeless to get to work, lower crime, free healthcare, no risk of deportation for having a view on Palestine etc etc The US isn't that pleasant of a place to live.

"No risk of deportation for having a view on Palestine"? https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/apr/03/german...

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#90

Post by rad_gruchalski »

chaosbolt wrote: post #71
perihelions wrote: post #21

You people are too good at critical thinking to read "an investment of 500 million euros between 2025 and 2027" and not instantly write this off as empty grandstanding. How much does—or did, recently—the United States federal government invest in scientists in the USA? Is it ~$70 billion a year? [0] Europe can achieve America's (past) results when Europe starts talking with money. Science migration has historically g…

100% about everything you said. My cousin studied at Ecole Polytechnique, then did a phd at another top french school and become a professor there. He has 6 articles publishes in the top 3 Math/CS/AI conferences. He was literally paid 45k€ a year, before taxes and other things, that's 2300€ a month after taxes, his rent was 1100€ because it's Paris, now Polytechnique has one of the hardest math/physics entrance exams…

Did he “fuck out to the US” to work in privately owned businesses, or comparable university job? What prevented your friend to “fuck out” to a private business in the EU?
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