Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

Post by mpweiher » Sat, May 10, 2025, 9:47 AM UTC

perihelions wrote: post #48

mpweiher wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not EU R&D budget. This is a small delta, extra funding specifically for attracting US scientists who are looking to move. Comparing this to the total expenditure by the US federal government seems...odd. I asked ChatGPT: "Combining both EU-level and national R&D expenditures, the total R&D spending across the EU in 2023 was approximately €505 billion." But that appears to be total, both government and indust…

I think that the US strongly outperforms the EU by that metric too, https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsb20246/cross-national-compariso... ( "Cross-National Comparisons of R&D Performance" (2024)) In the NSF's specific definition, the US greatly outspends the EU even normalizing by GDP—3.46% of GDP in the USA, against 2.16% in the EU-27. (Notably, China also recently surpassed the EU, at 2.43%).

Post by perihelions » Sat, May 10, 2025, 9:50 AM UTC

mpweiher wrote: post #51

perihelions wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the US strongly outperforms the EU by that metric too, https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsb20246/cross-national-compariso... ( "Cross-National Comparisons of R&D Performance" (2024)) In the NSF's specific definition, the US greatly outspends the EU even normalizing by GDP—3.46% of GDP in the USA, against 2.16% in the EU-27. (Notably, China also recently surpassed the EU, at 2.43%).

Hmm...Wikipidea says "$135.110B in R&D spending" for federal funds. Now that was 2015, but the number is very similar the EU figure of €136 billion. There will be be differences, but the point stands that comparing the tiny delta provided by this specific program to total spending is not serious.

Post by mpweiher » Sat, May 10, 2025, 9:51 AM UTC

perihelions wrote: post #53

mpweiher wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm...Wikipidea says "$135.110B in R&D spending" for federal funds. Now that was 2015, but the number is very similar the EU figure of €136 billion. There will be be differences, but the point stands that comparing the tiny delta provided by this specific program to total spending is not serious.

Right; that's the federal government spending, while the other's combined R&D from all sources (aligning with 'mpweiher 's comment and their metric). The nsf.gov page has a breakdown table, too, of government vs. industry spending.

Post by hnaccount_rng » Sat, May 10, 2025, 9:55 AM UTC

mpweiher wrote: post #35

perihelions wrote: post #21

You people are too good at critical thinking to read "an investment of 500 million euros between 2025 and 2027" and not instantly write this off as empty grandstanding. How much does—or did, recently—the United States federal government invest in scientists in the USA? Is it ~$70 billion a year? [0] Europe can achieve America's (past) results when Europe starts talking with money. Science migration has historically g…

This is not EU R&D budget. This is a small delta, extra funding specifically for attracting US scientists who are looking to move. Comparing this to the total expenditure by the US federal government seems...odd. I asked ChatGPT: "Combining both EU-level and national R&D expenditures, the total R&D spending across the EU in 2023 was approximately €505 billion." But that appears to be total, both government and indust…

Post by yladiz » Sat, May 10, 2025, 10:02 AM UTC

mpweiher wrote: post #38

mobtrain wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe „needs to pay up […] for Palestine” .. can you expand on this a little why you'd think that?

Yeah, funding a terror group that wants to destroy the west seems like a suboptimal use of our wealth.