Live data from Hacker News

Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

joshlehman.com

51–60 of 207 posts

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#51

Stop using Starbucks vs App analogy People try new restaurants all time spending between $10-$75 per person. They are often disappointed. People try new foods all the time (hey look at these new nuts, this new sports drink, this new natural pasta, this new gluten free cereal) Starbucks is a known brand. If you liked the last game made by Sid Meier you'll probably like his next one. Starbucks vs Apps is the wrong anal…

If I try a new restaurant and they don't bring my food to the table, I walk out without paying. If the food is horrible, I can send it back. If I pay the bill, I'm acknowledging that I got something of value. I may not decide to go back, but at least I'm not hungry any more. The same applies to your other examples. If the projector malfunctions when I'm watching a movie in a theatre, I get a coupon to come back another day.

With the app store, there's no recourse. I bought several apps that didn't work. It's not that they weren't as good as I expected, not that they crash occasionally. I wasn't disappointed. I was SOL, having received no value for my money. Sure, it was only couple of bucks, but I hate being a sucker.

If the app store would let me delete an app in the first 24 hours for a full refund, I'd buy a lot more apps.

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#52
Is it just me, or is it kind of odd that he titles and begins the post with a plea to "Stop Using the Cup of Coffee vs $0.99 Cent App Analogy" but then proceeds to totally use Starbucks as an shining example for how to run your app business (and at the end he even says "Just do what Starbucks does") ? By the end he's promulgating that people should adhere to the analogy by taking lessons from Starbucks.

Maybe I'm being pedantic but this seems like a contradiction.

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#53
post #18

I get the point, but I think the analogies are a bit artificial. "Starbucks is a trustable experience." The assumption is that all people all the time buy known brand coffee. From my own, I know I walk into coffee shops I have never been to before. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. Even at Starbucks there are times I ask for decaf and get caffed coffee, or other times, the green tea latte is just not mixed right, or the…

You're taking "Starbucks" too literally. Consider any tangible branded good, even if it's your local corner florist or a gas station.

Tangible goods are largely non-free. The alternative to a cafe beverage is either one from a competing establishment, or one you make yourself (I'm considering water and coffee to not be directly competitive, YMMV, I don't drink decaf).

I think you're understating the gambles involved in technology products. Or maybe I'm just overly risk-averse.

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#54
No, I don't think I will stop using it. It is a good analogy because it addresses the unnecessary tradition of cheapness related to getting anything online even though many of those online things do provide more (and longer lasting) value than a cup of coffee. It's still an analogy, it has obvious limitations, but it's not a bad one.

  Fact: Starbucks Coffee is a Trustable Experience
Coffee isn't specific to Starbucks, and though I admit given the choice between reasonable alternatives I'll choose Starbucks by default, that still doesn't mean the experience of sitting in any coffee house is even remotely consistent. Location matters, clientele matters, it matters if the staff has a bad day or not. And in reality, no coffee house experience is 0.99 cent - it's 5 bucks or more in practice.

  Fact: Your $1 App is a Total Gamble
It is a gamble but not as much so as, say, trying out a new coffee flavor, a new kind of pastry, a new pizza delivery service, or a million other new things you don't know anything about until you give them a spin. With apps, at least there are screenshots, feature lists, and reasonably reliable testimonials. With anything new, there is a risk. If I stick with the old stuff, I might miss out on something great. If I take a risk and explore, it might not be as good. It's a gamble.

  Fact: Starbucks Has No Free Alternative
Nothing is really free. Everything costs resources to make. The price you're paying in the app store is just one aspect or this. But sure, the closest physical world analogy would be bargain-hunting, which some people spend considerable amounts of energy on. In the software world, there is also the danger of confusing "free" apps with open source apps, that would be another thing entirely.

  Fact: Free Apps Are Often A Great Alternative
Not every app idea is worthwhile. In fact, I posit that most of them are not. For stuff that is really obvious or trivial, free is of course the best alternative. "Free" is not a bad thing per se. It's just that some things do cost money to make and a lot of times, app developers need to make a living as well. In these cases, "free" simply doesn't work in the long term. However, I would argue that app developers are not primarily competing with "free" rubbish apps, their struggle is to get the customer to engage at all as opposed to doing nothing.

  Fact: The Starbucks Craftsmanship Is On Full Display
Granted, not all app stores do a good job of making stuff discoverable - but in my opinion, they do have sufficient UI provisions for showcasing the detailed workings of apps. I would argue that apps are in fact on full display. If customers are wise enough to make good judgement calls is another matter entirely, but the same dilemma applies to food products actually.

  Fact: App Craftsmanship Is Hidden Away
Customers don't care how complicated your app is, the same way they don't care how much craftsmanship goes into making good coffee. Both processes are not generally known (or even of interest) to the average customer.

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#55

Stop using Starbucks vs App analogy People try new restaurants all time spending between $10-$75 per person. They are often disappointed. People try new foods all the time (hey look at these new nuts, this new sports drink, this new natural pasta, this new gluten free cereal) Starbucks is a known brand. If you liked the last game made by Sid Meier you'll probably like his next one. Starbucks vs Apps is the wrong anal…

Well at 10-75 bucks for dinner they know that they are at least going to get some nutrients. They can't say that the app will even boot up. I had an app that just crashed to the main screen because it wasn't written for the particular iOS version I was using. Getting a refund on a 99 cent app wasn't worthwhile to me so I didn't do it.

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#56
post #26

This seems like a poor argument for being cheap. "Starbucks Coffee is a Trustable Experience" Not true - I've had mixed results depending on time of day and what barista is making my drink. "Your $1 App is a Total Gamble" Nope. You have every opportunity to read the reviews, look at screenshots, use Google, etc. "Starbucks Has No Free Alternative" and "Free Apps Are Often A Great Alternative" I'm not sure how this ma…

Screenshots and reviews are very, very limited channels of information.

Reviews can be gamed, even when they're not, the ratings provided are typically highly inflated or simply binary (people give very high, or very low ratings, few in the middle). While descriptions can be useful, in practice most are not ("works great", "does everything I wanted" -- doesn't tell me "... for what" or "... and that was ..."). Negative reviews are often more useful (they're generally specific as to faults), but even then, as apps change over time, it's not clear what reviews relate to the current state of your app (Starbucks generally doesn't radically change its coffee composition from week to week).

Screenshots show a static view of an app but not its flow, responsiveness, accuracy, stability, privacy policy, and a whole slew of other issues.

The best way for me to judge software is to use it. Often for a prolonged period of time.

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#57
post #54

No, I don't think I will stop using it. It is a good analogy because it addresses the unnecessary tradition of cheapness related to getting anything online even though many of those online things do provide more (and longer lasting) value than a cup of coffee. It's still an analogy, it has obvious limitations, but it's not a bad one. Fact: Starbucks Coffee is a Trustable Experience Coffee isn't specific to Starbucks,…

IKEA has free coffee

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#58
Does anyone think that 'Starbucks' or 'Pay me $1' are great signals for Craftsmanship?

I know plenty of office environments with free coffee. There is your alternative, but it isn't relevant. People buy experiences. You go to Starbucks because you like the experience. The terminology. The chatty baristas. The drive-thru you can complain about with your sympathetic co-workers. They could probably charge twice what they do and keep a big fraction of their customers.

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#59
post #47

Horrifying. The point about the coffee cup comparison isn't that cups of coffee are the benchmark experience for product pricing; if that were the case, my next root canal would cost $0.20. The point of the coffee cup comparison is marginal utility : the money you spend on an expensive cup of coffee almost certainly has very little utility at the margin, because you are happy to chuck it away for a bad cup of coffee.…

Well said.

"Starbucks Craftsmanship"? Please.

Not sure what artisans you have running Starbucks cafes in the US, but in Australia the barristers are largely low paid teenagers using un-cleaned machines and second rate beans. To top it off most of the drinks have dollop of cream or some other sugary ingredient to mask the awful quality of the coffee.

I would gladly 'gamble' 99c with an iPhone developer over a Starbucks beverage.

EDIT: I'm talking specifically about Starbacks. Australia has excellent coffee. I'm drinking a lovely Sprocket coffee as I write this.

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#60
post #51

Stop using Starbucks vs App analogy People try new restaurants all time spending between $10-$75 per person. They are often disappointed. People try new foods all the time (hey look at these new nuts, this new sports drink, this new natural pasta, this new gluten free cereal) Starbucks is a known brand. If you liked the last game made by Sid Meier you'll probably like his next one. Starbucks vs Apps is the wrong anal…

If I try a new restaurant and they don't bring my food to the table, I walk out without paying. If the food is horrible, I can send it back. If I pay the bill, I'm acknowledging that I got something of value. I may not decide to go back, but at least I'm not hungry any more. The same applies to your other examples. If the projector malfunctions when I'm watching a movie in a theatre, I get a coupon to come back anoth…

Totally agree, but 24 hours is time enough to finish a game...
Post reply on HN