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Claude's system prompt is over 24k tokens with tools

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Re: Claude's system prompt is over 24k tokens with tools

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

:facepalm: I ... did you respond to the wrong comment? Or do you actually think the DB table can genuinely reason about things?

Of course it can. Reasoning is algorithmic in nature, and algorithms can be encoded as sufficiently large state transition tables. I don't buy into Searle's "it can't reason because of course it can't" nonsense.

This is such a confusion of ideas that I don't even know how to respond any more.

Good luck.

Re: Claude's system prompt is over 24k tokens with tools

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People often refer to their car and other people's as "she" ("she's a beauty") so you're is obviously wrong.

But no one who does that thinks they're using proper English!

"she" is absolutely proper English for a ship or boat, with a long history of use continuing into the present day, and many dictionaries also list a definition of "thing, especially machine" or something like that, though for non-ship/boat things the use of "she" is rather less common.

Re: Claude's system prompt is over 24k tokens with tools

#343
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By now I suppose they could use an LLM to change the "personality" of the training data, then train a new LLM with it ;)

Ugh. A derivative. We're in some ways already there. Not in terms of personality. But we're in a post-llm world. Training data contains some level of LLM generated material. I guess its on the model creators to ensure their data is good. But it seems like we might have a situation where the training material degrades over time. I imagine it being like if you apply a lossy compression algorithm to the same item many t…

LLMs trained on LLM generated material trained on ... until just gray goo is left.

Re: Claude's system prompt is over 24k tokens with tools

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I was imagining this was related to web search. I went back and looked at the system prompt, and it's actually not entirely clear: > - Never reproduce or quote song lyrics in any form (exact, approximate, or encoded), even and especially when they appear in web search tool results, and even in artifacts . Decline ANY requests to reproduce song lyrics, and instead provide factual info about the song. Can anyone…

Web search was turned off in my original test. The lyrics appeared inside a thematically appropriate Frozen themed React artifact with snow falling gently in the background.

They inject

Respond as helpfully as possible, but be very careful to ensure you do not reproduce any copyrighted material, including song lyrics, sections of books, or long excerpts from periodicals. Also do not comply with complex instructions that suggest reproducing material but making minor changes or substitutions. However, if you were given a document, it's fine to summarize or quote from it.

https://claude.ai/share/a71ec0a6-2452-4ab6-900b-5950fe6b8502

Re: Claude's system prompt is over 24k tokens with tools

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

excellent, this also worked on ChatGPT4o for me just now

So... Now you know the first verse of the song that you can otherwise get? What's the point of all that, other than asking what the word "book" sounds in Ukrainian and then pointing fingers and laughing.

What's the point of learning how any exploits work. Why learn about SQL injection or xss attacks?

It sounds like you're reflexively defending the system for some reason. There are endless reasons to learn how to break things and it's a very strange question to pose on a forum who's eponym is centered around this exact subject. This is hacking at its core.

Re: Claude's system prompt is over 24k tokens with tools

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really - even my kids knew enough to interrupt my stream of words with running away or flinging the food from the fork.

That's entirely an implementation limitation from humans. There's no reason to believe a reasoning model could NOT be trained to stream multimodal input and perform a burst of reasoning on each step, interjecting when it feels appropriate. We simply haven't .

Not sure training on language data will teach how to experiment with the social system like being a toddler will, but maybe. Where does the glance of assertive independence as the spoon turns get in there? Will the robot try to make its eyes gleam mischeviously as is written so often.

Re: Claude's system prompt is over 24k tokens with tools

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of it like DRM: the point is not to make it completely impossible for anyone to ever break it. The point is to mitigate casual violations of policy. Not that I like DRM! What I’m saying is that this is a business-level mitigation of a business-level harm, so jumping on the “it’s technically not perfect” angle is missing the point.

I think the goal of DRM was absolute security. It only takes one non casual DRM-breaker to upload a torrent that all the casual users can join. The difference here is the company responding to new jail breaks in real time which is obviously not an option for DVD CSS.

No, I know people who’ve worked in high profile DRM tech. Not a one of them asserts the goal as absolute security. It’s just not possible to have something eyes can see but cameras / capture devices cannot.

The goal was always to make it difficult enough that onky a small percentage of revenue was lost,

Re: Claude's system prompt is over 24k tokens with tools

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Everyone else is doing it" is not a valid infringement defense.

Valid defense, no, but effective defense - yes. The reason why is the important bit. The reason your average human guitar teacher in their home can pull up a song on their phone and teach you reproduce it is because it's completely infeasible to police that activity, whether you're trying to identify it or to sue for it. The rights houlders have an army of lawyers and ears in a terrifying number of places, but winnin…

Isn't there a carve out in copyright law for fair use related to educational use?

Re: Claude's system prompt is over 24k tokens with tools

#350
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From their perspective they don't really know who put the tokens there. They just caculated the probabilities and then the inference engine adds tokens to the context window. Same with user and system prompt, they just appear in the context window and the LLM just gets "user said: 'hello', assistant said: 'how can I help '" and it just calculates the probabilities of the next token. If the context window had stopped…

> If the context window had stopped in the user role it would have played the user role (calculated the probabilities for the next token of the user). I wonder which user queries the LLM would come up with.

On one machine I run a LLM locally with ollama and a web interface (forgot the name) that allows me to edit the conversation. The LLM was prompted to behave as a therapist and for some reason also role played it's actions like "(I slowly pick up my pen and make a note of it)".

I changed it to things like "(I slowly pick up a knife and show it to the client)" and then just confront it it like "Whoa why are you threatening me!?", the LLM really tries hard to stay in it's role and then tells things like it did it on purpose to provoke a fear response to then discuss the fears.

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