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First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

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Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The popes have long ruled that once a Catholic, you're stuck as a Catholic, though they may dispense from some requirements, sometimes. So even the Pope would say that you don't cease to be a Catholic if you call him an anti-Christ. Maybe excommunicated, but to be excommunicated you have to be Catholic.

It strikes me as fairly irrelevant what Catholics call ex-Catholics. I don't think you can (edit: reasonably) call yourself a Catholic if you do not adhere to certain tenets of the Catholic Church. (This is where I was going with the calls-themselves-Christian-but-aintnosuchthing comment, but it's less clear on re-read...)

> It strikes me as fairly irrelevant what Catholics call ex-Catholics.

> I don't think you can call yourself a Catholic if you do not adhere to certain tenets of the Catholic Church.

If John calls himself a Catholic, and the Catholic Church up to the Pope calls him a Catholic, you are pretty silly saying he is not a Catholic because he doesn't agree with the heirarchy on things on your personal priority list for what makes someone a Catholic.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#623

I just like that he was a math major.

He was a substitute science teacher at St. Rita, on the South Side (when we were in 8th grade in Catholic school on the South Side, Rita is one of the high schools that came and pitched to us; Marist and Carmel were the two big draws for boys, McCauley for girls). Can you imagine how weird it would be to have a high school science teacher that went on to become pope ?

> Can you imagine how weird it would be to have a high school science teacher that went on to become pope?

Soon on Netflix: the spiritual (heh) successor to Breaking Bad.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#625
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but most of the world, when they say America or American, they mean the USA, otherwise they'll say "the Americas" or "North American" or "South American" or refer to a specific country. It's just a reality that a lot of people don't want to face, but you have to be pragmatic in life for the most part.

> Sure but most of the world Not really. (Also we call English Channel 'La Manche' - even if we do not understand French).

> Also we call English Channel 'La Manche' - even if we do not understand French

Do we? I've literally never heard it called anything other than the English Channel. After some quick googling and gpting, I can't find any reference to it being referred to as "La Manche" outside of France. The closest I got was "Canal de la Mancha" in Spain.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#626
post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the Spanish colonization had virtually no impact on the ethnic, political, or religious development of the United States other than some water and land rights in the Southwest.

>Sure, but the Spanish colonization had virtually no impact on the ethnic, political, or religious development of the United States other than some water and land rights in the Southwest. Texas, California, Florida, totally unimportant backwater states, right? No Latin American culture, ethnicity, political or religious influence to speak of.

How much Latin American representation would you say there was in the US colonies and United States before 1950?

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#627
post #195

Some jokes I saw on Reddit: He is to be referred to as, "Da Pope." "Ketchup to be banned in the Vatican." "He's going to replace Communion Wine with Malört."

Dislike Chicagoans ketchup?

Yes, it's very much anathema to put ketchup on a hot dog, at least among Chicago hot dog enthusiasts.

For those unfamiliar, Chicago is also one of those American cities with its own style hotdog, so it's something of the local culture:

> All-beef frankfurter, on a steamed poppy seed bun, topped with yellow mustard, chopped white onions, bright green sweet pickle relish, a dill pickle spear, tomato slices, and a dash of celery salt.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago-style_hot_dog

Obviously, this is only as serious as you take hot dogs, but they are very good and compared to deep-dish pizza, the Chicago-style hot dog feels almost healthy.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#628
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it’s worth, I was just reading that Leo wasn’t seen as “completely” American due to his many years in Peru — he’s even a citizen. Take that as you will.

Americans will say they are Italian because their great grandma ate spaghetti once, but God forbid someone is American because he was born there

GP is right, he is not "completely" American in the sense that he is both American and Peruvian because of his dual citizenship. He also spent most of his life outside of the USA.

Which I think is a great thing as the representative of a worldwide religion. Born in the US, an English-speaking country in North America, lived in Peru, a Spanish-speaking country in the South America, then in Italy, an Italian-speaking country in Europe.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#629
post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pope Quartz: https://xkcd.com/2501/ I was raised Catholic and couldn't have even told you there'd been a single Pope Leo, let alone 13 of them before today. The only Pope quote I could even give you is the term "Ex Cathedra".

It never ceases to amaze me how poorly catechized the majority of cradle Catholics are. I don't intend this to be directed at you, but it's a standing joke among traditionalist Catholics that "I was raised Catholic" is the preamble to a statement of either ignorance or heresy.

[flagged]

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be hard to argue that the bible actively promotes same-sex marriage, but I think you could reasonably argue that it says nothing on the subject and so leaves it for the church/community to decide. There are places where the bible gives guidance for heterosexual marriages, but that doesn't necessarily mean that all other marriages are prohibited. Most people are heterosexual, so it makes sense that the bible…

> It would be hard to argue that the bible actively promotes same-sex marriage, but I think you could reasonably argue that it says nothing on the subject and so leaves it for the church/community to decide. This is where I've yet to see convincing evidence. The whole meta-story of the first few chapters of Genesis was about creation. Not just creation of the universe as we know it, but the pro-creation between a man…

> The whole meta-story of the first few chapters of Genesis was about creation. Not just creation of the universe as we know it, but the pro-creation between a man and a woman in the sanctimony of marriage

I find this to be a very strange reading. I never got that from the creation narrative at all. Looking through it, I only see two places that seem to be about marriage. First there's Genesis 2:22-24:

> 22. And God YHVH fashioned the side that had been taken from the man (adam) into a woman (ishah), bringing her to the man (adam). 23. Then the man (adam) said, “this one at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. This one shall be called woman (ishah), for from a man (ish) was she taken.” 24. Hence a man (ish) leaves his father and mother and clings to his wife (ishah), so that they become one flesh.

This doesn't mention procreation at all! It seems to say that men and women come together because they have a common origin, not necessarily because it produces offspring. You could still say that this supports heterosexual marriage, but I don't see any particular reason to read it as prohibiting other types of marriage. And in fact, it seems to work fine with gay marriage – two men or two women are also presumably from the same flesh and bones as Adam and Eve.

Then there's Genesis 3:16:

> And to the woman [God] said, “I will greatly expand your hard labor—and your pregnancies; in hardship shall you bear children. Yet your urge shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.

This says something about bearing children and about male-female relationships, but it doesn't really draw the line saying that the purpose of marriage is to produce children. It also presents all of this as an unfortunate state of affairs.

I guess there's also 1:28-29:

> 28. And God created man (adam) in the divine image, creating them in the image of God—creating them male and female. 29. God blessed them and God said to them, “Be fertile and increase, fill the earth and master it; and rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, and all the living things that creep on earth.”

That talks about reproduction, but it doesn't say anything about marriage.

> I'm purely speaking from an academic sense here (the art of understanding what someone wrote a long time ago).

Right. I think whoever wrote the creation story was trying to provide an explanation for why the world was the way it was: why the world exists, why there are seven days in a week, why there are men and women, why they have dominance over the animals, why there's suffering, why snakes have no legs, and so and so forth. I don't think they meant for the creation story to give instructions at all, except a moral that one should obey God. I don't get the impression that the author was trying to sanctify marriage or procreation at all. If they were, it seems like they would have described Adam and Eve's wedding, they would have spent more than one sentence on the birth of their first child, and they wouldn't have presented pregnancy as a curse.

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