Big Fish launches real-money gambling app in UK via Betable • Hacker News Board

Re: Big Fish launches real-money gambling app in UK via Betable

#11

Post by david_shaw » Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 6:26 PM UTC

davidtyleryork wrote: post #9

bezaorj wrote: post #8

This will promote a flood of apps exploring real-money gambling on all platforms. Google and Apple are probably worried on the due diligence on this kind of games, if the odds are respected, if there is no possibility of rigged games, etc etc

We actually take this very seriously at Betable. We do due diligence on all games that go live with our platform. There are two reasons: the legal reasons, and because the long-term health of our ecosystem depends on it. If players get ripped off, they won't come back. We're going to make sure every game is legal, fair and fun for those reasons.

Does this include checksums of server-side code, or random interval testing?

I am not sure how deeply you can go into your vetting process publicly, but I'd love to know how you can prevent a shadier company from pulling a bait-and-switch to change the odds of their games after you've approved them as a trusted vendor.

Re: Big Fish launches real-money gambling app in UK via Betable

#12

Post by davidtyleryork » Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 7:13 PM UTC

david_shaw wrote: post #11

davidtyleryork wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We actually take this very seriously at Betable. We do due diligence on all games that go live with our platform. There are two reasons: the legal reasons, and because the long-term health of our ecosystem depends on it. If players get ripped off, they won't come back. We're going to make sure every game is legal, fair and fun for those reasons.

Does this include checksums of server-side code, or random interval testing? I am not sure how deeply you can go into your vetting process publicly, but I'd love to know how you can prevent a shadier company from pulling a bait-and-switch to change the odds of their games after you've approved them as a trusted vendor.

I can't go into more detail about our vetting process, but I can tell you that game companies cannot change the odds of their game without our approval.

Re: Big Fish launches real-money gambling app in UK via Betable

#13

Post by davidtyleryork » Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 7:16 PM UTC

kine wrote: post #5

I love what Betable's doing and I'm excited for their team. I took part in their first hackathon in SF a few weekends ago and built an app on their platform. The brilliant part of their business is that they're the casino. You give them the inputs, they give you the outputs but all of the actual gambling, for every app, all of the odds - everything - is all handled by them.

Thanks kine! Good to see you at the hackathon btw :)

Re: Big Fish launches real-money gambling app in UK via Betable

#14

Post by david_shaw » Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 7:42 PM UTC

davidtyleryork wrote: post #12

david_shaw wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this include checksums of server-side code, or random interval testing? I am not sure how deeply you can go into your vetting process publicly, but I'd love to know how you can prevent a shadier company from pulling a bait-and-switch to change the odds of their games after you've approved them as a trusted vendor.

I can't go into more detail about our vetting process, but I can tell you that game companies cannot change the odds of their game without our approval.

Fair enough - I sort of figured you wouldn't be able to comment on it.

You guys have a really smart team, though, so I'm sure you have something awesome figured out. Congrats on the exposure this should net you! :)

Re: Big Fish launches real-money gambling app in UK via Betable

#15

Post by davidtyleryork » Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 7:53 PM UTC

david_shaw wrote: post #10

One issue that a service like this is going to run into relates to security. The fact that this application needs to be secure from local tampering and unauthorized betting is obvious -- what may not be as obvious to some readers is the location-based access control that needs to be built into legal gambling applications. Several casinos in the United States (Nevada, from what I've seen) have already built and releas…

Hey David,

While I can't give you a technical answer as I'm just the marketing guy, I can tell you that simply setting up a VPN in England is not going to work. We have a number of state-of-the-art gating techniques for identifying and prohibiting players from using our service illegally. We check for much more than Geo-location and IP. Obviously I can't get into as much detail as I'd like, but that's the gist of it.

Also, as Betable is doing all of the gambling, in the event that an extreme edge case occurs we would be liable, not the game developer working with us.

Unfortunately I can't answer the following questions about security precautions, but I can see if one of our engineers can hop on the thread to respond. I'll get back to you.

Re: Big Fish launches real-money gambling app in UK via Betable

#16

Post by Evbn » Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 7:54 PM UTC

davidtyleryork wrote: post #9

bezaorj wrote: post #8

This will promote a flood of apps exploring real-money gambling on all platforms. Google and Apple are probably worried on the due diligence on this kind of games, if the odds are respected, if there is no possibility of rigged games, etc etc

We actually take this very seriously at Betable. We do due diligence on all games that go live with our platform. There are two reasons: the legal reasons, and because the long-term health of our ecosystem depends on it. If players get ripped off, they won't come back. We're going to make sure every game is legal, fair and fun for those reasons.

It is hard to imagine that a noticable fraction of gamblers would be able to understand if they are being ripped off. Only a small corps of elite poker players and card counters would notice, but the usual hordes of slot machine pullers will dominate the audience.

Re: Big Fish launches real-money gambling app in UK via Betable

#17

Post by rhplus » Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 8:09 PM UTC

davidtyleryork wrote: post #15

david_shaw wrote: post #10

One issue that a service like this is going to run into relates to security. The fact that this application needs to be secure from local tampering and unauthorized betting is obvious -- what may not be as obvious to some readers is the location-based access control that needs to be built into legal gambling applications. Several casinos in the United States (Nevada, from what I've seen) have already built and releas…

Hey David, While I can't give you a technical answer as I'm just the marketing guy, I can tell you that simply setting up a VPN in England is not going to work. We have a number of state-of-the-art gating techniques for identifying and prohibiting players from using our service illegally. We check for much more than Geo-location and IP. Obviously I can't get into as much detail as I'd like, but that's the gist of it.…

Obviously I can't get into as much detail as I'd like, but that's the gist of it.

Come on, we all know that security through obscurity is weak. Tell us how the security system works and the community will test it for you!

Re: Big Fish launches real-money gambling app in UK via Betable

#18

Post by wtetzner » Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 8:15 PM UTC

rhplus wrote: post #17

davidtyleryork wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey David, While I can't give you a technical answer as I'm just the marketing guy, I can tell you that simply setting up a VPN in England is not going to work. We have a number of state-of-the-art gating techniques for identifying and prohibiting players from using our service illegally. We check for much more than Geo-location and IP. Obviously I can't get into as much detail as I'd like, but that's the gist of it.…

Obviously I can't get into as much detail as I'd like, but that's the gist of it. Come on, we all know that security through obscurity is weak. Tell us how the security system works and the community will test it for you!

"...I can't give you a technical answer as I'm just the marketing guy..."

"Unfortunately I can't answer the following questions about security precautions, but I can see if one of our engineers can hop on the thread to respond."

I don't think he's not explaining it because it would be insecure. He's not explaining it because he doesn't know it well enough.

Re: Big Fish launches real-money gambling app in UK via Betable

#19

Post by bezaorj » Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 9:51 PM UTC

davidtyleryork wrote: post #9

bezaorj wrote: post #8

This will promote a flood of apps exploring real-money gambling on all platforms. Google and Apple are probably worried on the due diligence on this kind of games, if the odds are respected, if there is no possibility of rigged games, etc etc

We actually take this very seriously at Betable. We do due diligence on all games that go live with our platform. There are two reasons: the legal reasons, and because the long-term health of our ecosystem depends on it. If players get ripped off, they won't come back. We're going to make sure every game is legal, fair and fun for those reasons.

I imagined this was one of the main concerns.. what I learned now from your comment, is that everything runs through Betable, makes a lot of sense, but Apple probably would still want to be extra careful. Are Google, Apple and MS already doing due diligence on Betable to approve the games that would go live with your platform? Will it work like a "Betable seal of approval" ?