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Vagus Nerve Stimulation Erases PTSD: Study

neurosciencenews.com

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Re: Vagus Nerve Stimulation Erases PTSD: Study

#31

Post by goda90 »

pizza wrote: post #24

I don’t think there is clinical level evidence for it, but there’s this thing called Trauma Releasing Exercise which apparently some people swear by. The idea is that you do extremely taxing, high neuromuscular-recruitment static holds etc - til the point of total muscle control loss that turns into widespread trembling. I would speculate that if a big part of feeling bad is getting stuck in a state where tension bec…

> I don’t think there is clinical level evidence for it

Even if it's 100% placebo, if it's not harmful, and it works for a person, then it works. But, determining if it's not harmful should be a priority. I found this person saying it made their life worse, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD_NSCommunity/comments/ungaew/t...

Re: Vagus Nerve Stimulation Erases PTSD: Study

#32

Post by detourdog »

goda90 wrote: post #31
pizza wrote: post #24

I don’t think there is clinical level evidence for it, but there’s this thing called Trauma Releasing Exercise which apparently some people swear by. The idea is that you do extremely taxing, high neuromuscular-recruitment static holds etc - til the point of total muscle control loss that turns into widespread trembling. I would speculate that if a big part of feeling bad is getting stuck in a state where tension bec…

> I don’t think there is clinical level evidence for it Even if it's 100% placebo, if it's not harmful, and it works for a person, then it works. But, determining if it's not harmful should be a priority. I found this person saying it made their life worse, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD_NSCommunity/comments/ungaew/t...

I think you are correct. The strangest things I have learned about personality disorder is that diagnosis applies for as long as the disordered behavior exists.

If the disordered person's behavior adapts to "social norms" the diagnosis no longer applies.

Re: Vagus Nerve Stimulation Erases PTSD: Study

#33

Post by Sylamore »

airbreather wrote: post #30
carabiner wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these treatments has a 100% success rate. You can try EMDR on Youtube and if it worked all the time, psychiatrists would be out of a job.

Yeah I said it was dhit when my ex-wife said she was going to do it, but it definitely did something. And I am well aware of the placebo effect. But just because something is not provable or falsifiable under current scientific knowledge, it does not mean it is neccesarily quackery, there's a Venn diagram there where some things may be effective. Automatically discarding something that even occasionally gets results,…

Sadly it made my ex-wife worse off than before - she went from a functioning anxious person to being completely overwhelmed by anxiety all the time.

Re: Vagus Nerve Stimulation Erases PTSD: Study

#35

Post by deno »

ajb wrote: post #28
binarymax wrote: post #3

My friend’s startup is doing great stuff in this space to make a VNS device for consumers. https://zenbud.health/

I'm skeptical of these devices that say they are safe based on CE or FCC testing. (zenbud says it has been CE tested). That's consumer product testing, not health-device testing; I would like to see some evidence that long-term use of a nerve stimulation device causes no long term damage. I don't believe that CE or FCC tests show that. It's disingenuous to have a press release saying "Yay! We passed CE testing!" as i…

FWIW the EU also has EUDAMED registry for producers, distributors and importers of medical devices and there are additional regulations beyond CE under the MDR directive.

I don't see "ZenBud" or "NeurGear" in the EUDAMED database.

An ultrasonic device delivering energy to human tissue would be a class 2a or 2b active medical device under MDR.

Re: Vagus Nerve Stimulation Erases PTSD: Study

#36

Post by ivape »

I don't know how I feel about this. The nature of PTSD is that you have a true memory, that the event happened. Imagine if I tell you, 9/11 was real and it happened, but from now you will never feel any feeling about it. What exactly did we accomplish here? The bombings in Gaza are real, but from now on, you will feel nothing about it. You see? It reads like a dystopia.

There's an obsession with erasing the past and not digesting it. The subconscious wants reconciliation, and it will emerge over and over, that's what PTSD is. Lobotomizing someone is certainly one way of reconciling it. The only way out is through imho, that you are forever changed and saw the face of mankind, and your subconscious will not accept any cheap reconciliation for the most part.

"Just zap it", I sense the subconscious will not let you get away with that. You are custodian of the trauma.

Re: Vagus Nerve Stimulation Erases PTSD: Study

#37

Post by tartoran »

msc1 wrote: post #25
amelius wrote: post #10

Why not use EMDR instead? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_movement_desensitization_a...

From wikipedia: EMDR has been characterized as pseudoscience, because the underlying theory and primary therapeutic mechanism are unfalsifiable and non-scientific. EMDR's founder and other practitioners have used untestable hypotheses to explain studies which show no effect.[55] The results of the therapy are non-specific, especially if directed eye movements are irrelevant to the results. When these movements are re…

Possibly has placebo effect. I know someone who did EMDR and said it helped them a lot.

Re: Vagus Nerve Stimulation Erases PTSD: Study

#38

Post by The_Amp_Walrus »

ivape wrote: post #36

I don't know how I feel about this. The nature of PTSD is that you have a true memory, that the event happened. Imagine if I tell you, 9/11 was real and it happened, but from now you will never feel any feeling about it. What exactly did we accomplish here? The bombings in Gaza are real, but from now on, you will feel nothing about it. You see? It reads like a dystopia. There's an obsession with erasing the past and…

you're conflating "not having an overwhelming negative reaction to it" with "never feel anything about it"

you can know something is bad and act accordingly without having a disordered and painful relationship with it

Re: Vagus Nerve Stimulation Erases PTSD: Study

#39

Post by ivape »

The_Amp_Walrus wrote: post #38
ivape wrote: post #36

I don't know how I feel about this. The nature of PTSD is that you have a true memory, that the event happened. Imagine if I tell you, 9/11 was real and it happened, but from now you will never feel any feeling about it. What exactly did we accomplish here? The bombings in Gaza are real, but from now on, you will feel nothing about it. You see? It reads like a dystopia. There's an obsession with erasing the past and…

you're conflating "not having an overwhelming negative reaction to it" with "never feel anything about it" you can know something is bad and act accordingly without having a disordered and painful relationship with it

But you are supposed to have a painful relationship with it. You are never ever supposed to be at peace with it. It's who you become as the holder of that pain that provides any foundation. In a sense, "zapping it" limits your potential. A surrogate mother robs the mother of child-bearing (in all normal cases like Kim Kardashian, not for cases where the original mother cannot physically give birth). That's just a fact. The trauma event has already robbed them, why rob them twice?

Most people will have no capacity to feel what you feel about it. You have the gift of feeling what is necessary to feel about that event. It's precious, and it needs to be nurtured. My utter contempt and sorrow for what I feel about certain things belongs in the world, as best as I can hold and steer it.

No one can feel your pain, and if you zap it, then not even you can feel it. It's unloving to yourself and your experience.

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