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India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

reuters.com

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Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#621

Post by enugu »

lazide wrote: post #551
enugu wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The incentives of the Pakistani generals to permit organizations like LeT to commit further terrorist attacks is a different domain from whatever the local political situation is like in India. There has been a past regime where Pakistani generals were able to train and send militants regularly to conduct terror attacks in India. Without an effective response from India putting pressure on these generals, that can ea…

Do you think (plausibly) threatening to cut off water to large swathes of Pakistan, or blowing up some random terrorist camps, is the bigger actual threat?

Cutting off water supply is clearly the bigger threat. However, it involves a longer time frame - building infrastructure which one expects not to use in a normal situation.

Importantly, even once built, it selects the wrong targets, not terrorists or military bases - but regular people who will be faced with scarcity of water and food, as the crops use Indus water. This would be something highly unethical, and also not something sustainable - once visuals of hunger start reaching screens across the world, the force to restart the supply would be strong.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#622

Post by computerthings »

oliwarner wrote: post #425
simonswords82 wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to say the opposite. Seems on all the main news outlets (Financial Times et al) have disabled comments. I was happy to see this being discussed on HN and I’ve yet to see Middle East or Trump being censored but happy to be signposted to evidence of this on HN.

I've no issue with this being discussed here. I welcome it. I can't find you a list of showdead. They're unlisted and Algolia doesn't preserve them. I see them because I subscribe to a 50+ score RSS feed. I regularly see popular posts flagged off the home page for what appears to be partisan reasons, but is often justified as "non technical".

[dead]

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#624

Post by aucisson_masque »

HPsquared wrote: post #342
aucisson_masque wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's different, Germany used fake death of German soldier to justify an invasion of Poland. India is bombing Pakistan, Pakistan is shelling India, but so far no army invaded another country. Beside both Germany and Poland didn't have the atomic weapon.

It's worrying that the world is progressing to "nuclear states attacking each other". Like two cowboys who both have revolvers, getting into a bar fight.

By all means, it's a miracle we didn't have a nuclear disaster during the cold war. It went very very close.

If it weren't for mens like Vasili Arkhipov, who disobeyed direct orders to launch a nuclear torpedo against ships of the United States Navy, and the many other men during different incidents, we would be all dead.

What is frightening is that we, the humanity, keep going that close from our death by atomic warfare over and over, yet make no adjustment whatsoever.

I'm no expert but when I went close to dying a few too many times on my motorbike, broke a few bones, etc.. I was smart enough to realize you can't cheat statistics. At one point I wouldn't be lucky and there wouldn't be a second chance to save me, so I stopped driving recklessly.

On the other hand, the number of nuclear weapons didn't decrease, there are more actors now involved, and the kind of fantasized Pakistani and indians nuthead are really frightening.

I don't think there would be a Vasili Arkhipov over there, they're completely nuts.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#625

Post by screye »

hayst4ck wrote: post #158
screye wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India wants peace. A peaceful India threatens Pakistan's entire existence as a military state. Therefore, Pakistan keeps instigating with outrageously cruel terrorist attacks. There are no strategic goals here. Either side may recover some vantage points high up in the Himalayas. But that's about it.

Israel and Russia also want peace. China wants peace with Taiwan. The US wants peace with Greenland and Canada. You have to be careful with that word, peace, because all wars are defensive.

Israel did want peace with Gaza (Gaza specifically, not West Bank). After the 2005 Gaza disengagement, Israel did a lot to normalize relations with Gaza. They wanted peace until they gave up all attempts to do so, after October 7th.

Peace implies disengagement by maintaining long-standing borders. India wants peace by maintaining Line of Actual Control (LAC). Be it China or Pakistan, India has never been the one to escalate first. When engaging with nations that want peace, India has been able to resolve complex border issues. Eg: Srilanka[1] and Bangladesh [2].

Russia and China do not want peace because they are invading past their effective borders into lands they do not control.

All wars are not defensive. All countries are not the same. Each war is different, and it is fair to impose different judgements on the participants of each war.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katchatheevu

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India%E2%80%93Bangladesh_encla...

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#626

Post by [deleted] »

tim333 wrote: post #440
forty wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what world "tech" has brought peace? So far it brought of stuff like dependency to petrol and now rare minerals, climate change, and water rarerification - which are I think most of the reasons why wars are/have been/will be happening?

Europe is much more peaceful that it was. Not sure if you can blame tech.

[deleted]

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#627

Post by profsummergig »

smt88 wrote: post #99
jmclnx wrote: post #12

I have believed and still believe India and Pakistan will engage on the first nuclear war :( I hope it does not happen, but the way things are going in this world, I would not be surprised. In the past, the USSR and the US would try to broker peace between the two countries. I doubt anyone will try now.

This would be true mutually-assured destruction, so it still seems unlikely. Pakistan could kill hundreds of millions with a few launches and India could kill everyone in Pakistan.

That doesn't sound like mutual destruction. It sounds like it would be partial-destruction on one side.

Might be worth it.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#628

Post by profsummergig »

alephnerd wrote: post #15
jmclnx wrote: post #12

I have believed and still believe India and Pakistan will engage on the first nuclear war :( I hope it does not happen, but the way things are going in this world, I would not be surprised. In the past, the USSR and the US would try to broker peace between the two countries. I doubt anyone will try now.

India has a dedicated No First Use Policy, and the former head of India's nuclear command gave an in depth presentation about India, Pakistan, and China's nuclear doctrine at Livermore Labs a couple years ago - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OZpIrZvP0Co Most of the conversation about a nuclear war is dated (30-35 years old) because it was based on the 1990 standoff, before which India and Pakistan did not have a hotli…

India has amended its no-first-use policy with regard to Pakistan.

It now depends on "circumstances".

Source: https://www.livemint.com/news/india/india-s-no-first-use-nuc...

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#629

Post by oefrha »

sbmthakur wrote: post #610
oefrha wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s your country, I’m just a neutral on the outside. If you want to take the stance of “fake news”, “no evidence of that” unless India publicly admits it, by all means. I don’t count on that happening though because there’s obviously “appease the domestic population” going on.

I am more than happy to believe that 100 Indian jets were shot as long as there's credible evidence. It's war and casualties are expected.

Ask your government to uncensor the Internet and you’ll probably get plenty of credible evidence in addition to the partial confirmation by the French side and anonymous local officials. According to CNN both sides are smart enough to not cross the border so that an undeniable parade of wreckage like the one in 2019 can’t happen this time round.
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