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OpenAI reaches agreement to buy Windsurf for $3B

bloomberg.com

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Re: OpenAI reaches agreement to buy Windsurf for $3B

#271

Post by rs186 »

silverwind wrote: post #168
leonidasv wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is: we should not need standalone editors just to use AI coding agents. They could be just plugins, but Microsoft does not want to bend the plugin API enough for that. Windsurf has a "plugin edition" for JetBrains IDEs that works really, really well[0] (they also have a VSCode plugin[1] but it's lacking in comparison). However, given that JetBrains also have their own AI offering[2], I'm not sure how long t…

> They could be just plugins No, they should be LSPs so that they can be integrated into any editor, not just VSCode.

Microsoft has been dragging their feet when it comes to updating the LSP spec. Many of their Copilot features are done in VSCode, in fact using private APIs that are not accessible to other extensions.

I am all for everyone adopting LSP, but the reality is harsh.

Re: OpenAI reaches agreement to buy Windsurf for $3B

#272

Post by conartist6 »

bix6 wrote: post #241
conartist6 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a competitor in that key segment I don't feel locked out. I could almost jump for joy that this very weak-tea move is the most they can do with that much money . They're just quintupling down on the technology of 50 years ago. There's no threat to me at all here as a creator of from-first-principles IDE technology.

What are you working on?

It's not too hard to find out, but I'm going to make a big announcement in a few days so my official message at the moment is "stay tuned"

Re: OpenAI reaches agreement to buy Windsurf for $3B

#273

Post by mdasen »

lolinder wrote: post #246
retornam wrote: post #240

I'm skeptical about this VSCode fork commanding a $3 billion valuation when it depends on API services it doesn't own. What's their moat here? For comparison, JetBrains generates over $400 million in annual revenue and is valued around $7 billion. They've built proprietary technology and deep expertise in that market over decades. If AI (terminology aside) replaces many professional software engineers and programmers…

Part of what you're missing is that OpenAI needs to justify its own overinflated valuation. They raise money on the premise that an AI-native company can and will outcompete giant established players, so lowballing Windsurf would run counter to the narrative they're selling to their own investors.

The article also doesn't say that it's $3B in cash that OpenAI is spending. They might be giving Windsurf $3B worth of OpenAI shares - paying an inflated value for Windsurf with their own inflated value.

OpenAI just had a fundraising round that put them at $300B. Maybe they're just giving Windsurf 1% of OpenAI. Maybe they're even giving less than 1% - if OpenAI was worth $300B at the end of March and $150B last October, maybe they're worth $400B now. Maybe Windsurf is getting 0.75% of OpenAI that's "valued" at $3B.

Re: OpenAI reaches agreement to buy Windsurf for $3B

#274

Post by samdjstephens »

retornam wrote: post #240

I'm skeptical about this VSCode fork commanding a $3 billion valuation when it depends on API services it doesn't own. What's their moat here? For comparison, JetBrains generates over $400 million in annual revenue and is valued around $7 billion. They've built proprietary technology and deep expertise in that market over decades. If AI (terminology aside) replaces many professional software engineers and programmers…

Just consider what it fundamentally is: a company at the leading edge of a product category that has found absurdly strong technology/use-case fit, and is growing insanely fast.

Looking for a moat in the technology is always a bit of a trap - it’s in the traction, the brand awareness, the user data etc.

Re: OpenAI reaches agreement to buy Windsurf for $3B

#275

Post by RobinL »

cheema33 wrote: post #249
AlwaysRock wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a little late to jump on the cursor bandwagon but finally downloaded it because i liked the LLM chat interface in the sidebar. By the time my free trial ran out, VSCode had added a LLM chat interface in the sidebar. Yes Cursor had a bit better auto complete and maybe a few other things but it wasnt good enough that it was worth paying for. But I'm glad OpenAI is getting into the tooling space in this way. I can…

> By the time my free trial ran out, VSCode had added a LLM chat interface in the sidebar. I am guessing you are talking about GitHub Copilot when you say VSCode. GitHub Copilot is far far inferior product when compared to Cursor, Windsurf or Augment Code. Most people who try almost any Copilot alternative for a reasonable amount of time end up canceling their Copilot subscription. I did, after two months of using bo…

How long ago was that? 6 months ago I switched from VS Code to Cursor, which at the time was FAR superior to Copilot. Around a month ago I switched back to VS Code, and found there's not much difference any more. Autocomplete in VS Code is still less good, but the agent mode in VS Code feels pretty similar to Cursor's (albeit a little slower, perhaps).

To be honest I think both are quite limited by context length (in that they try to limit the context they send to the LLM and hence cost), and so I find myself using Gemini 2.5 in AI studio with the 1m context length, and asking it to generate instructions for Copilot (which seems to work pretty well)

Re: OpenAI reaches agreement to buy Windsurf for $3B

#277

Post by troupo »

pjmlp wrote: post #205
preciousoo wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the use of being miles ahead if you’re traveling in the wrong direction?

Doesn't look like, given Windows market share.

Not just Windows. I find .net a better choice for backend/microservices than Java, for example

Re: OpenAI reaches agreement to buy Windsurf for $3B

#278

Post by tomnipotent »

marricks wrote: post #78
Androider wrote: post #28

Windsurf and Cursor feel like temporary stopgaps, products of a narrow window in time before the landscape shifts again. Microsoft has clearly taken notice. They're already starting to lock down the upstream VSCode codebase, as seen with recent changes to the C/C++ extension [0]. It's not hard to imagine that future features like TypeScript 7.0 might be limited or even withheld from forks entirely. At the same time,…

Wow, folks almost had me convinced MS turned a new leaf 5 years ago. Tale as old as time, song as old as rhyme: embrace, extend, extinguish.

Do you consider the Microsoft-managed plug-in marketplace and infrastructure to be a private or public resource? From my understanding Microsoft has never been vague on the position that the plugin marketplace is exclusive to the official VS Code distribution, and the TOS specifically forbids forks from doing so.

Cursor and other forks have decided to circumvent this, some even going so far as to use proxies to bypass restrictions.

I'm not convinced Microsoft owes other billion dollar companies free access to a product they've built, curated, and supported for over a decade. Plug-in authors are not restricted from publishing their products on competing marketplaces.

Re: OpenAI reaches agreement to buy Windsurf for $3B

#279

Post by macrolime »

timabdulla wrote: post #45
Androider wrote: post #28

Windsurf and Cursor feel like temporary stopgaps, products of a narrow window in time before the landscape shifts again. Microsoft has clearly taken notice. They're already starting to lock down the upstream VSCode codebase, as seen with recent changes to the C/C++ extension [0]. It's not hard to imagine that future features like TypeScript 7.0 might be limited or even withheld from forks entirely. At the same time,…

I mean, the fact that OpenAI, at the bleeding edge of it all, has decided to buy an IDE is a rather strong hint that the future of agents handling entire engineering tickets might be further out than many believe. If autonomous agents were just around the corner, then why wouldn't OpenAI bet on their own Codex product obviating (most) need for an IDE and save themselves the $3 billion?

They might just want a way to quickly collect data needed for fine-tuning the next generation of programming agents.

Re: OpenAI reaches agreement to buy Windsurf for $3B

#280

Post by casey2 »

Who are these people that give OpenAI all this money? Aren't Microsoft, SoftBank, Nvidia publicly traded? Don't they owe a fiduciary duty to their investors? I'm surprised it's legal to just hand over a blank check to random private companies to make nonsense purchases. This isn't going to end well.

If I were any of these companies I would be suing OpenAI to try to get my money back. Thrive, ARK, Tiger and the others can pound sand

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