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Gemini 2.5 Pro Preview

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Re: Gemini 2.5 Pro Preview

#361

Post by sanderjd »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #317
sanderjd wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see this is that it's just another skill differentiator that you can take advantage of if you can get it right. That is, if it's true that abstraction and architecture are useful for a given product, then people who know how to do those things will succeed in creating that product, and those who don't will fail. I think this is true for essentially all production software, but a lot of software never reache…

> "vibecoded" proofs of concept The fact that you called it out as a PoC is already many bars above what most vibe coders are doing. Which is considering a barely functioning web app as proof that vibe coding is a viable solution for coding in general. > I do worry about what the careers of entry level people will look like. It isn't obvious to me how they'll naturally develop any of these skills. Exactly. There isn'…

Yeah I think we largely agree. But I do know people, mostly experienced product managers, who are excited about "vibecoding" expressly as a prototyping / demo creation tool, which can be useful in conjunction with people who know how to turn the prototypes into real software.

I'm sure lots of people aren't seeing it this way, but the point I was trying to make about this being a skill differentiator is that I think understanding the advantages, limitations, and tradeoffs, and keeping that understanding up to date as capabilities expand, is already a valuable skillset, and will continue to be.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Pro Preview

#362

Post by Rudybega »

satvikpendem wrote: post #275
segphault wrote: post #18

My frustration with using these models for programming in the past has largely been around their tendency to hallucinate APIs that simply don't exist. The Gemini 2.5 models, both pro and flash, seem significantly less susceptible to this than any other model I've tried. There are still significant limitations, no amount of prompting will get current models to approach abstraction and architecture the way a person doe…

If you use Cursor, you can use @Docs to let it index the documentation for the libraries and languages you use, so no hallucination happens.

The context7 mcp works similarly. It allows you to search a massive constantly updated database of relevant documentation for thousands of projects.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Pro Preview

#363

Post by dml2135 »

TuringNYC wrote: post #343
jjice wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused by your comment. It seems like you didn't really provide a retort to the parent's comment about bad architecture and abstraction from LLMs. FWIW, I think you're probably right that we need to adapt, but there was no explanation as to _why_ you believe that that's the case.

I think they are pointing out that the advantage humans have has been chipped away little by little and computers winning at coding is inevitable on some timeline. They are also suggesting that perhaps the GP is being defensive.

Why is it inevitable? Progress towards a goal in the past does not guarantee progress towards that goal in the future. There are plenty of examples of technology moving forward, and then hitting a wall.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Pro Preview

#364

Post by dist-epoch »

froh wrote: post #319
segphault wrote: post #18

My frustration with using these models for programming in the past has largely been around their tendency to hallucinate APIs that simply don't exist. The Gemini 2.5 models, both pro and flash, seem significantly less susceptible to this than any other model I've tried. There are still significant limitations, no amount of prompting will get current models to approach abstraction and architecture the way a person doe…

searching and ranking existing fragments and recombining them within well known paths is one thing, exploratively combining existing fragments to completely novel solutions quickly runs into combinatorial explosion. so it's a great tool in the hands of a creative architect, but it is not one in and by itself and I don't see yet how it can be. my pet theory is that the human brain can't understand and formalize its cr…

> Demystifying Gödel's Theorem: What It Actually Says

> If you think his theorem limits human knowledge, think again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH-ybecvuEo

Re: Gemini 2.5 Pro Preview

#365

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

segphault wrote: post #18

My frustration with using these models for programming in the past has largely been around their tendency to hallucinate APIs that simply don't exist. The Gemini 2.5 models, both pro and flash, seem significantly less susceptible to this than any other model I've tried. There are still significant limitations, no amount of prompting will get current models to approach abstraction and architecture the way a person doe…

2.5 pro seems like a huge improvement.

One area I've still noticed weakness is if you want to use a pretty popular library from one language in another language, it has a tendency to think the function signatures in the popular language match the other.

Naively, this seems like a hard problem to solve.

I.e. ask it how to use torchlib in Ruby instead of Python.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Pro Preview

#366

Post by Imanari »

thevillagechief wrote: post #259
nashashmi wrote: post #113

I keep hearing good things about Gemini online and offline. I wrote them off as terrible when they first launched and have not looked back since. How are they now? Sufficiently good? Competent? Competitive? Or limited? My needs are very consumer oriented, not programming/api stuff.

The Gemini deep research is a revelation. I obsessively research most things I buy, from home appliances to gym equipment. It has literally saved untold hours of comparisons. You get detailed reports generated from every website including youtube reviews. I've bought a bunch of stuff on it's recommendation.

care to share your search prompt?

Re: Gemini 2.5 Pro Preview

#367

Post by byearthithatius »

martinsnow wrote: post #279
paulirish wrote: post #250

> Gemini 2.5 Pro now ranks #1 on the WebDev Arena leaderboard It'd make sense to rename WebDev Arena to React/Tailwind Arena. Its system prompt requires [1] those technologies and the entire tool breaks when requesting vanilla JS or other frameworks. The second-order implications of models competing on this narrow definition of webdev are rather troublesome. [1] https://blog.lmarena.ai/blog/2025/webdev-arena/#:~:text…

Bwoah it's almost as if react and tailwind is the bees knees ind frontend atm

Sadly. Tailwind is so oof in my opinion. Lets import megabytes just so we don't have to write 5 whole CSS classes. I mean just copy paste the code.

Don't get me stared on how ugly the HTML becomes when most tags have 20 f*cking classes which could have been two.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Pro Preview

#368

Post by Workaccount2 »

jstummbillig wrote: post #314
segphault wrote: post #18

My frustration with using these models for programming in the past has largely been around their tendency to hallucinate APIs that simply don't exist. The Gemini 2.5 models, both pro and flash, seem significantly less susceptible to this than any other model I've tried. There are still significant limitations, no amount of prompting will get current models to approach abstraction and architecture the way a person doe…

> no amount of prompting will get current models to approach abstraction and architecture the way a person does I find this sentiment increasingly worrisome. It's entirely clear that every last human will be beaten on code design in the upcoming years (I am not going to argue if it's 1 or 5 years away, who cares?) I wished people would just stop holding on to what amounts to nothing, and think and talk more about wha…

Software will change to accommodate LLMs, if for no other reason than we are on the cusp of everyone being a junior level programmer. What does software written for LLMs to middleman look like?

I think there is a total seismic change in software that is about to go down, similar to something like going from gas lamps to electric. Software doesn't need to be the way it is now anymore, since we have just about solved human language to computer interface translation. I don't want to fuss with formatting a word document anymore, I would rather just tell and LLM and let it modify the program memory to implement what I want.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Pro Preview

#369

Post by TuringNYC »

dml2135 wrote: post #363
TuringNYC wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they are pointing out that the advantage humans have has been chipped away little by little and computers winning at coding is inevitable on some timeline. They are also suggesting that perhaps the GP is being defensive.

Why is it inevitable? Progress towards a goal in the past does not guarantee progress towards that goal in the future. There are plenty of examples of technology moving forward, and then hitting a wall.

I agree with you it isnt guaranteed to be inevitable, and also agree there have been plenty of journeys which were on a trajectory only to fall off.

That said, IMHO it is inevitable. My personal (dismal) view is that businesses see engineering as a huge cost center to be broken up and it will play out just like manufacturing -- decimated without regard to the human cost. The profit motive and cost savings are just too great to not try. It is a very specific line item so cost/savings attribution is visible and already tracked. Finally, a good % of the industry has been staffed up with under-trained workers (e.g., express bootcamp) who arent working on abstraction, etc -- they are doing basic CRUD work.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Pro Preview

#370

Post by cadamsdotcom »

Google/Alphabet is a giant hulking machine that’s been frankly running at idle. All that resume driven development and performance review promo cycles and retention of top talent mainly to work on ad tech means it’s packed to the rafters with latent capability. Holding on to so much talent in the face of basically having nothing to do is a testament to the company’s leadership - even if said leadership didn’t manage to make Google push humanity forward over the last decade or so.

Now there’s a big nugget to chew (LLMs) you’re seeing that latent capability come to life. This awakening feels more bottom-up driven than top down. Google’s a war machine chugging along nicely in peacetime, but now its war again!

Hats off to the engineers working on the tech. Excited to try it out!

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