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Getting things “done” in large tech companies

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Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#111

Post by babyent »

yawgmoth wrote: post #30
_fat_santa wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's kinda the beauty of it. If you get laid off from one of these places the next place doesn't know that you took 300k home to do jack, all they know is you worked for a super prestigious company for 10 years and you can plausibly make up the rest about what you actually did there.

> you can plausibly make up the rest about what you actually did there. I would never do this, and if you would do this I wouldn't want to work with you. Maybe I'm a sucker, but I sleep alright.

Chances are high anyone to corroborate was laid off and does the same thing anyway lol

Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#112

Post by babyent »

yawgmoth wrote: post #30
_fat_santa wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's kinda the beauty of it. If you get laid off from one of these places the next place doesn't know that you took 300k home to do jack, all they know is you worked for a super prestigious company for 10 years and you can plausibly make up the rest about what you actually did there.

> you can plausibly make up the rest about what you actually did there. I would never do this, and if you would do this I wouldn't want to work with you. Maybe I'm a sucker, but I sleep alright.

Chances are high anyone to corroborate was laid off or has moved on, and does the same thing anyway lol

Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#113

Post by whstl »

chausen wrote: post #78
yawgmoth wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can plausibly make up the rest about what you actually did there. I would never do this, and if you would do this I wouldn't want to work with you. Maybe I'm a sucker, but I sleep alright.

What about actually accomplishing some things over 10 years while maintaining good work life balance?

That's the dream, but it requires either luck (to fall into a great company) or burning of political capital (plus luck).

Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#114

Post by sharkweek »

codingbot3000 wrote: post #98
whstl wrote: post #3

I don't disagree with the article, but after working in big tech, two HN startups, a couple unicorns and others, in two continents, I don't really find this too actionable. In the last ten years (and even in the 20-people HN startups), the day to day work of engineers has become so incredibly specialised and divorced from the needs of decision-makers and the customers that there is almost nothing I can do to influenc…

Out of curiosity: Why didn't you continue being product manager?

I read the comment and had the same question!

I did this myself and ended up with a really satisfying 4ish years as a PM.

That being said while I was perhaps fairly cynical about why PMs needed to exist before trying the role myself, after being in the role for an extended period of time, fully understand why the role exists now.

Of course there can be bad PMs, a good/great one is super worth it.

Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#116

Post by RainyDayTmrw »

I strongly dislike "alignment" as a buzzword, and I think its existence is ipso facto an indication of our industry's dysfunction, but it nevertheless represents a legitimately important concept. You, your manager, and (to quote the article) some appropriate number of your skip-levels should ideally agree on what the most important next work items are. And to the extent that you don't, that's a problem for you as the individual contributor. Is this right? Is this fair? Of course not. Not in any moral sense, at least. But those are the cards we're dealt, and we play them as best as we can. The article is right that, on some level, we are paid to do what we are told to do. This is not a great outcome. Some of us are fortunate enough to have some sway in the opposite direction. This is the so-called "managing up" - another buzzword I strongly dislike, but again represents a legitimately important concept.

Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#117

Post by joncrocks »

yodsanklai wrote: post #103
wpietri wrote: post #24

I fundamentally object to any notion of done-ness that is solely focused on pleasing the few people who happen to be in positions of power. Are we all embedded in absurd structures of primate dominance? Sure. Primates gonna prime. But that is no more the root of what's going on than being able to mark something done in Jira, or getting a compiler to stop complaining. Proximate hurdles are not ultimate goals. Nobody g…

> that was 40 years well spent making a rotating series of bosses and grandbosses happy Isn't that the definition of being employed? pleasing the persons who pay you to do what they ask?

The golden rule. He (or she) who has the gold makes the rules.

Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#118

Post by masom »

_fat_santa wrote: post #28
pydry wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds great if you can ride that into retirement but if you get laid off and you start having to justify your existence again in the job market I dont think "I took home $300k for doing nothing and then got laid off" is a great sell.

But that's kinda the beauty of it. If you get laid off from one of these places the next place doesn't know that you took 300k home to do jack, all they know is you worked for a super prestigious company for 10 years and you can plausibly make up the rest about what you actually did there.

This becomes quickly apparent in a smaller company or if you have a manager that knows what they are doing.

You'll get hired, if you pass the technical interviews, but if you cannot contribute at the level they hired you, you'll be exited and that will be suspicious for your next application.

Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#119

Post by nspassov »

I continue to be amazed how the respect for the work of IT professionals gets lower and lower. This article attempts to reduce software development down to "people pleasing". A prostitute is also paid to make the "investors" happy but even people who've never hired one agree that not every demand by the "investor" can be fulfilled and that the prostitute can set boundaries. Yet, when it comes to software development, people such as the author of this article claim that the only true definition of done can be derived solely from the desires and wants of the business people (some of who tend to change opinions depending on what time they'd woken up). Imagine if civil engineers operated in this way.

Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#120

Post by whstl »

codingbot3000 wrote: post #98
whstl wrote: post #3

I don't disagree with the article, but after working in big tech, two HN startups, a couple unicorns and others, in two continents, I don't really find this too actionable. In the last ten years (and even in the 20-people HN startups), the day to day work of engineers has become so incredibly specialised and divorced from the needs of decision-makers and the customers that there is almost nothing I can do to influenc…

Out of curiosity: Why didn't you continue being product manager?

Good question.

Mostly politics, I guess?

The CTO was about to be fired, so I had nobody to fight for me. The Chief of Product didn't like the optics of a non-PM being more successful than a PM in delivering work.

(EDIT: As I said, I delivered from start-to-finish 3 projects that other teams had considered "impossible", mostly because of bad specifications and overengineering, often caused by PM miscommunication. The PMs of other teams REALLY took the blame here: one was fired and sued by the company before I joined, and the other confessed to me he was "asked to leave")

As for why I don't change careers, I'm an Engineering Manager and I made twice as much money than a senior PM at my previous organization.

I still long for a position where I can be both technical, product and business minded. But I guess the only job where I can do that is as a founder.

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