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Getting things “done” in large tech companies

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Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#11

Post by Spooky23 »

agentultra wrote: post #6

> this fact is a trap for competent but unagentic engineers Is “unagentic engineer” a euphemism for human/not-AI? Unfortunately for companies whose engineers work this way, they’re on a one-way trip to expensive cloud bills, data breaches, and frustrated customers. A good amount of that “never done,” work is: - Patching security vulnerabilities - Fixing mistakes made due to lack of planning/testing - reducing costs d…

“Unagentic” is a terrible made up word to say that employees lack agency.

Basically, people like when employees show initiative, operate independently and influence their surroundings independently. At least they like to say that.

It’s a common trap for engineers, many of whom like to burrow in and crank out stuff. You’re toiling away slaying tickets and doing your thing, but become invisible or don’t realize managements attention elsewhere.

Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#12

Post by stuartjohnson12 »

agentultra wrote: post #6

> this fact is a trap for competent but unagentic engineers Is “unagentic engineer” a euphemism for human/not-AI? Unfortunately for companies whose engineers work this way, they’re on a one-way trip to expensive cloud bills, data breaches, and frustrated customers. A good amount of that “never done,” work is: - Patching security vulnerabilities - Fixing mistakes made due to lack of planning/testing - reducing costs d…

It doesn't have to be that way, but that's certainly the default unless executives put in the work to make certain kinds of work legible.

A great example that is less cynical is interface design - I greatly enjoy building user interfaces that are correct for lots of little interactivity details. It pains me to release an interface that breaks on tablets, or where the container doesn't have padding so the button awkwardly juts up against it.

This kind of attention to design detail is not automatically rewarded except for at companies and startups for whom that's something that is valued, and design intuition is praised. I've had people come to me for work in the past specifically because they love that I pay extra attention to this stuff.

That said, in many places this is not appreciated at all and none of this would be a value add.

Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#13

Post by 2mol »

agentultra wrote: post #6

> this fact is a trap for competent but unagentic engineers Is “unagentic engineer” a euphemism for human/not-AI? Unfortunately for companies whose engineers work this way, they’re on a one-way trip to expensive cloud bills, data breaches, and frustrated customers. A good amount of that “never done,” work is: - Patching security vulnerabilities - Fixing mistakes made due to lack of planning/testing - reducing costs d…

> Is “unagentic engineer” a euphemism for human/not-AI?

No, it refers to people that are not "high agency", i.e. they might be smart and competent but need guidance on what to work on, as opposed to taking initiative themselves.

Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#14

Post by eXpl0it3r »

Is this sentiment the reason why a lot of "engineers" will provide terrible quality in code / tests (lack thereof) / documentation / etc.?

If all that matters that someone at the top sees it and is happy about it at this specific moment in time, why bother writing code that can last and doesn't leave behind an absolute unmaintainable ball of mud?

We don't need gold plating and yet billions could be saved by having invested more than the bare minimum.

Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#16

Post by frozencooler »

agentultra wrote: post #6

> this fact is a trap for competent but unagentic engineers Is “unagentic engineer” a euphemism for human/not-AI? Unfortunately for companies whose engineers work this way, they’re on a one-way trip to expensive cloud bills, data breaches, and frustrated customers. A good amount of that “never done,” work is: - Patching security vulnerabilities - Fixing mistakes made due to lack of planning/testing - reducing costs d…

> Is “unagentic engineer” a euphemism for human/not-AI?

Pretty sure it means someone who plods along in life, going with the flow, working but with no self-conceived roadmap of ambition, low extroversion, low desire to make decisions, etc

Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#17

Post by spicyusername »

eXpl0it3r wrote: post #14

Is this sentiment the reason why a lot of "engineers" will provide terrible quality in code / tests (lack thereof) / documentation / etc.? If all that matters that someone at the top sees it and is happy about it at this specific moment in time, why bother writing code that can last and doesn't leave behind an absolute unmaintainable ball of mud? We don't need gold plating and yet billions could be saved by having in…

I don't think anyone purposely writes terrible code.

You know the old standard:

    Never attribute to malice what is equally explained by incompetence
But certainly stagnant conditions or burnout can prevent people from really putting in the extra effort. Why go the extra mile when it's consistently not rewarded, and in some cases punished?

Also many software engineers are just not very good, frankly. It's extremely difficult to become an actuary without a strong mathematics background. It is very easy to become a software engineer with any kind of background, even if being a good one is just as difficult.

Re: Getting things “done” in large tech companies

#19

Post by spicyusername »

Palomides wrote: post #15

"once software is done, you might be tempted to maintain it, but don't fall into that trap!" seems like a bleak thesis to me

They are implying that it is up to the decision makers to decide whether maintaining it is valuable.

Never maintain it for "free".

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