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You'll never be Chinese

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181–188 of 188 posts

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#181
post #150

As Confucius said, 三人行,必有我師焉 ("wherever three persons are walking, my teacher is surely among them"). This is a very interesting article for an American who has lived in east Asia for two three-year stays (mostly in Taiwan) and who has been learning the Chinese language since 1975. Much of what has been said about China in the first decade of the twenty-first century reminds me very much of what was said about Japan…

When talking about education in China, given that I just graduated from a chinese high school last year(I'm chinese), I think I can have a different view-point from others looking outside. The fact is that, chinese students indeed have really really lots of things to learn in the subject of science, especially math, but something has missed, gravely. For example, the spirit of science. In china, students are told to…

I don't think this is a problem isolated in China, I grew up in the Australian education system, went to a top 3 public high school, and the situation(at least for math/science) is the same. Subjects are taught by teachers who follow textbooks, where textbooks are full of practice questions to make sure you can give the correct answer. The underlying motivation for the material is missing - very very few teachers know the material or truly want to properly educate students.

The only difference is that the material is comparatively much less/easier than in the Chinese system, and motivation for students to do well is much lower - the exam has much less impact on the students future.

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#182

What does it mean to be Chinese? Technically, there is no Chinese ethnicity. China is made up of (officially) 56 ethnicities. My parents are ethnically Han Chinese. I was born in Canada, raised in America. I carry an American passport. To my neighbors, I'm a 华侨 (overseas Chinese); one taxi driver told me that I would be Chinese forever because it's in my blood. So what am I? Moving from the questions of ethnicity, is…

To be Chinese is to be 'jing' - to put it negatively, it means to be calculating, materialistic and ruthlessly advancing one's agenda; to put it positively, it means that you are constantly trying to improve yourself and be resourceful. As 1.5 generation American-Chinese, I used to hate Chinese culture for its 'jing'-ness and rebelled it by going to a liberal arts college and reading Jack Kerouac, subscribing to the…

I don't understand the last sentence - honesty to self seems to be more an individual virtue as opposed to a cultural virtue.

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#183
post #119

Very interesting read of one person's (very credible) opinions about China. Yet... The title is a tautology. I can't help but feel that anyone from country X will every be integrated into any other country, as long as they still want to be themselves. Which is what the author never really states. Had he bought into the materialistic lifestyle, asked everyone how much money they made, and insisted his kids cram for el…

I think a big reason is ease of integration/life - many Chinese people find life to be easier when they immigrate to the West. Life can be very very competitive in China - relationships are often necessary, complex and by definition numerous.

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#184
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I hope the Chinese are able to take criticism better than the west. Westerners can't get over their superiority complex. Actually, most Chinese people I've met, especially those who were born and raised in mainland China, have a massive superiority complex. In every type of discussion comparing the West to China, they keep bringing it up the fact that China has thousands of years of history, and has invented things…

Russian people of Soviet era had the same complex. We were taught that we have best science, culture, sport, military and most progressive state. Also we were strong but good, not as "prokliatye imperialisty" ("cursed imperialists") It evaporated in '90s, but not completely - I often hear "we were ...." Jerome K. Jerome wrote about the same complex in British people. If I recall correctly that must be in "Diary of a…

I hear that Russia still has the best mathematicians. Culturally Russia was at the forefront of music/opera - just see the famous violinist of the 20th centuary. I read though in Nathan Milstein's biography that he fled the Stalin regime which stifled art in Russia.

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#185
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be Chinese is to be 'jing' - to put it negatively, it means to be calculating, materialistic and ruthlessly advancing one's agenda; to put it positively, it means that you are constantly trying to improve yourself and be resourceful. As 1.5 generation American-Chinese, I used to hate Chinese culture for its 'jing'-ness and rebelled it by going to a liberal arts college and reading Jack Kerouac, subscribing to the…

I don't understand the last sentence - honesty to self seems to be more an individual virtue as opposed to a cultural virtue.

Yes, China is now more individualistic than America because people are forced to be.

On the superficial level, Chinese may seem to be socially conservative and study math/science to the wishes of parents, etc. But on a deeper level, modern Chinese are extremely selfish, there was a little girl who was hit in a hit-and-run in a major city in central China during mid-day and no one helped her for hours while she laid there dying. This is quite morbid to Westerner values, but the Chinese rationale is "if I help her, the person who hit her has already run away; she might pin me for the hit-and-run because she needs to sue someone for her damage."

Individualism here implies self-protection and ruthless advancement of personal agenda for money and power; it's quite different from the American ideal of individualism of finding and pursuing one's passion and vision. However, my point is that both the Chinese and Americans ideals, are actually the same thing in different dressings, it's just Chinese are more honest about it because of economical scarcities.

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#186
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the last sentence - honesty to self seems to be more an individual virtue as opposed to a cultural virtue.

Yes, China is now more individualistic than America because people are forced to be. On the superficial level, Chinese may seem to be socially conservative and study math/science to the wishes of parents, etc. But on a deeper level, modern Chinese are extremely selfish, there was a little girl who was hit in a hit-and-run in a major city in central China during mid-day and no one helped her for hours while she laid t…

This is really interesting, the case of the girl you described certainly isn't new phenomenon. I lived with my parents in China up until 1993, and back then this was also a common situation, someone would be dying on the street but for hours nobody will help. I distinctly remember arriving in Australia to find people will help out strangers on the street that are in trouble, it was very different to how things are in China.

I'm not sure how far this phenomenon goes back, but the idea behind the thinking is that helping might bring great trouble upon yourself - part superstition and part selfishness. I remember when was around 5 and I saw this other kid who was starving, I had pity on him and wanted to give him some food, but I remember my mother stopping me. There are also many 'pianzi' in China - they trick/lie to you in order to gain something, and people are very weary of this. This is why family/relationships are so much closer in China - people are only willing to help those they know.

I've heard that young people(particularly girls) in China are today more obsessed with money, so there very well may be truth to what you say about people being selfish.

>China is now more individualistic than America because people are forced to be.

I agree with this - competition is so high today compared to when my parents were growing up. The pressure back then was low as opportunities under the communist regime simply didn't exist - only those with great ambition would work hard. Most student/workers played around all day at that time.

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#187
post #181
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When talking about education in China, given that I just graduated from a chinese high school last year(I'm chinese), I think I can have a different view-point from others looking outside. The fact is that, chinese students indeed have really really lots of things to learn in the subject of science, especially math, but something has missed, gravely. For example, the spirit of science. In china, students are told to…

I don't think this is a problem isolated in China, I grew up in the Australian education system, went to a top 3 public high school, and the situation(at least for math/science) is the same. Subjects are taught by teachers who follow textbooks, where textbooks are full of practice questions to make sure you can give the correct answer. The underlying motivation for the material is missing - very very few teachers kno…

I think the way to teach math is really the problem to be solved, the math itself is such hard to find motivation to learn for most students if not combining with orther subjects. Teachers may also be confused about that.

Re: You'll never be Chinese

#188

As Confucius said, 三人行,必有我師焉 ("wherever three persons are walking, my teacher is surely among them"). This is a very interesting article for an American who has lived in east Asia for two three-year stays (mostly in Taiwan) and who has been learning the Chinese language since 1975. Much of what has been said about China in the first decade of the twenty-first century reminds me very much of what was said about Japan…

> Native-born Americans like me who have lived in east Asia are APPALLED at the wasted opportunities that United States schools have with their lavish resources to provide a truly world-class education. United States schools do not do as badly as they possibly could, but they also don't do as well as they reasonably could be expected to do. I know this is a popular refrain about American education, but it's only a ha…

>our car-based society allows us to geographically isolate us from the poor

You think that a society needs cars to be geographically isolated from the poor? Ever hear of a thing called history? by this statement I can see that you have not. History tells us that our car-based society allows for more opportunity for the social underclass rather than the opposite.

If you think that funding for schools in poor areas is the problem with our education system - you are out of touch with reality. I grew up in one of those areas and observed first hand the problem. It is not that the children do not have the opportunity to study and get good grades, go to college and get out of poverty.... The problem is that the kids are lazy and they aren't pushed by their parent(s) to do their homework and study. They get into trouble on the streets or play video games instead, girls get pregnant and go on welfare as single moms, guys do drugs and join gangs ending up in jail. Then they blame white people for their problems.

I know this by observation. Why isn't anyone asking the students who come out of these areas with decent to good grades and make something out of themselves. Everyone has their theory but no one wants to hold the parents of these kids accountable. I personally think that parents should be punished if their children don't do well in school, have continual behavioral problems or commit crimes. Cut off the welfare and restrict these parents and their families to living in a shelter and eating bread and water (no money for cable tv, alcohol and ciggies). It is not a good solution, but it is the only solution that will work. No amount of money via welfare or social programs will ever bring the black community out of the continuum they are stuck in.

The Hispanic community has another problem. Most of them are from Mexico or are second generation. The immigrants are usually much better off financially than they were in Mexico even if they are making $6 an hour mowing lawns. Their kids often cannot speak English very well and don't think that that they should have to put in more work than their English speaking counterparts to stay at the same level. Often their parents both work very long hours and do not appreciate the value of their kids education. They like the black parents (but for different reasons) do not require a high level of effort from their kids in regards to education. Again, their has to be consequences for these parents. Investigate the parents of children who never do their homework or are clearly not giving much effort in school. Warn them, then if things don't improve - deport them. I think that we would see quite a lot better grades from Mexicans overnight if this policy was implemented.

If parents don't know how to motivate their children - offer them parenting classes.

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