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'I found your dad': The mystery of a missing climber

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Re: 'I found your dad': The mystery of a missing climber

#21

Post by LandR »

rufus_foreman wrote: post #19
neckardt wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with mountains is twofold: Many mountains can be climbed without being elite while exposing yourself to major risk, and for some mountains there is objective hazard that can’t be mitigated. One example of an “easy” but high risk climb is Mt. Rainier in Washington. All you need to go up is a set of crampons and a backpack, no technical mountaineering needed. However the mountain is full of glaciers that ca…

>> Objective hazard is risks that cannot be reasonably mitigated. Things like rockfall where a rock breaks off and falls on your head at random, or unpredictable avalanches Those risks can be mitigated. They can't be reduced to zero, but they can be made less severe. Avalanches don't typically happen randomly out of the blue any more than thunderstorms do in the midwest. In the midwest, you know days ahead of time th…

K2 doesn't kill 25% of people who climb it.

It has a historic fatality ratio of 1 death for every 4 summits. If you have 100 people try to climb it in a season, 4 summits and 1 death you have 25% summit to death ratio, but 99 out of the 100 people survived.

Last year it looks like it had 175 climbers, ~50 summits, and 2 deaths. 2023 had over 100 summits and 1 death.

Re: 'I found your dad': The mystery of a missing climber

#22

Post by rufus_foreman »

LandR wrote: post #21
rufus_foreman wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Objective hazard is risks that cannot be reasonably mitigated. Things like rockfall where a rock breaks off and falls on your head at random, or unpredictable avalanches Those risks can be mitigated. They can't be reduced to zero, but they can be made less severe. Avalanches don't typically happen randomly out of the blue any more than thunderstorms do in the midwest. In the midwest, you know days ahead of time th…

K2 doesn't kill 25% of people who climb it. It has a historic fatality ratio of 1 death for every 4 summits. If you have 100 people try to climb it in a season, 4 summits and 1 death you have 25% summit to death ratio, but 99 out of the 100 people survived. Last year it looks like it had 175 climbers, ~50 summits, and 2 deaths. 2023 had over 100 summits and 1 death.

Thanks for the clarification.

Re: 'I found your dad': The mystery of a missing climber

#23

Post by ghaff »

rufus_foreman wrote: post #19
neckardt wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with mountains is twofold: Many mountains can be climbed without being elite while exposing yourself to major risk, and for some mountains there is objective hazard that can’t be mitigated. One example of an “easy” but high risk climb is Mt. Rainier in Washington. All you need to go up is a set of crampons and a backpack, no technical mountaineering needed. However the mountain is full of glaciers that ca…

>> Objective hazard is risks that cannot be reasonably mitigated. Things like rockfall where a rock breaks off and falls on your head at random, or unpredictable avalanches Those risks can be mitigated. They can't be reduced to zero, but they can be made less severe. Avalanches don't typically happen randomly out of the blue any more than thunderstorms do in the midwest. In the midwest, you know days ahead of time th…

You can mitigate to greater or lesser. Kate Matrosova was actually well prepared when she died a few years ago. She should simply have gone out in that forecast

On the other hand, you get into the bigger mountains and it’s a lot harder. To time the weather and other dangers.

Re: 'I found your dad': The mystery of a missing climber

#24

Post by paulcole »

voidfunc wrote: post #5
shermantanktop wrote: post #4

[flagged]

Some folks are adrenaline junkies. Doing this stuff when you have kids though is negligence and even worse doing it when the kid already lost one parent to the activity. Fuck those parents and anyone here that's like them.

> Doing this stuff when you have kids though is negligence

Obviously there’s a middle ground but nobody says that giving up the thing that you love because you have kids is negligence.

Re: 'I found your dad': The mystery of a missing climber

#25

Post by [deleted] »

amiga386 wrote: post #17
billy99k wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same with base jumping. I remember watching a documentary on it one time and almost all of the people being interviewed knew multiple people that died during a jump.

They are not the same. In mountaineering, if something goes wrong, you could die. In base jumping, if you don't do everything correctly, you will die. A bit like the difference of a car engine failing (it will roll to a stop) vs an airplane engine failing (you will come down hard on the ground)

[deleted]

Re: 'I found your dad': The mystery of a missing climber

#26

Post by carabiner »

blackguardx wrote: post #6
shermantanktop wrote: post #4

[flagged]

Driving to the mountains is often more dangerous than climbing a mountain. Things change at the elite levels, but that is true for any sport.

No, stop that. That's bullshit and Will Gadd calls it out:

https://www.instagram.com/realwillgadd/p/CdoHJjag_QC/

Re: 'I found your dad': The mystery of a missing climber

#27

Post by crazygringo »

blackguardx wrote: post #6
shermantanktop wrote: post #4

[flagged]

Driving to the mountains is often more dangerous than climbing a mountain. Things change at the elite levels, but that is true for any sport.

Do you have a citation for that?

In my personal experience, that does not seem true. I have a number of friends who have been seriously injured climbing, e.g. from large rocks falling from above, presumably loosened by water freezing and expanding over the winter.

I don't know anyone who's gotten into an accident on their trip to or from climbing. Car accidents are already pretty rare overall, and driving to/from climbing is a teensy fraction of your overall driving.

Mountains are inherently dangerous, unpredictable places in ways that roads usually aren't.

Re: 'I found your dad': The mystery of a missing climber

#28

Post by pfdietz »

Spooky23 wrote: post #15
blackguardx wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving to the mountains is often more dangerous than climbing a mountain. Things change at the elite levels, but that is true for any sport.

That’s a classic ridiculous HN pedantic missing the point statistical response. I suppose on a basis of deaths per vertical meter travelled, ascending slopes is probably safer than even air travel.

> I suppose on a basis of deaths per vertical meter travelled, ascending slopes is probably safer than even air travel.

No, by orders of magnitude.

Re: 'I found your dad': The mystery of a missing climber

#29

Post by dh2022 »

billy99k wrote: post #11
neckardt wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with mountains is twofold: Many mountains can be climbed without being elite while exposing yourself to major risk, and for some mountains there is objective hazard that can’t be mitigated. One example of an “easy” but high risk climb is Mt. Rainier in Washington. All you need to go up is a set of crampons and a backpack, no technical mountaineering needed. However the mountain is full of glaciers that ca…

It's the same with base jumping. I remember watching a documentary on it one time and almost all of the people being interviewed knew multiple people that died during a jump.

I have been thinking about starting to do air gliding. Is this a dangerous sport? How long does it take to get to glide a few miles? Any pointers pointers (books, videos,etc..) to start up? I live nearby Seattle, WA. Thanks!!!

Re: 'I found your dad': The mystery of a missing climber

#30

Post by mhandley »

dh2022 wrote: post #29
billy99k wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same with base jumping. I remember watching a documentary on it one time and almost all of the people being interviewed knew multiple people that died during a jump.

I have been thinking about starting to do air gliding. Is this a dangerous sport? How long does it take to get to glide a few miles? Any pointers pointers (books, videos,etc..) to start up? I live nearby Seattle, WA. Thanks!!!

When I used to do gliding (sailplane, not hang gliding or paragliding) many years ago, it was not classed as a dangerous sport for insurance purposes. Don't know about the other fields of gliding. General aviation was classed as riskier - I guess glider pilots are more used to the fact that they don't have a working engine!
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