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Accountability Sinks

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Re: Accountability Sinks

#141

Post by hliyan »

op00to wrote: post #129
dendodge wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off-topic, but since you mention it, I've always been confused about what Americans always seem to be doing at the DMV. It seems to be a staple of pop culture that people are always there and the queue is always very long, but I've never known what anyone is actually trying to achieve. The DVLA in the UK doesn't have a high-street presence. I took my driving test once, then received my driving licence in the post. Wh…

Because of the importance of driving in the US (right or wrong), drivers licenses are used as the primary identification document. It looks like there’s a similar use of the DL in the UK for buying tobacco. In the US, you need to prove both residency and identity. To prove your identity in the US, many people don’t have passports, so they bring a tranche of documents to the DMV office. To prove residency, we typicall…

If a person does not (and does not want to) drive, how do they identify themselves? Where I live, everyone gets a government issue ID card, and the ID number is the citizen's primary key. Our government is still largely paper-driven, but there's little you can't get done if you show up in person with your national ID.

Re: Accountability Sinks

#142

Post by layer8 »

mtndew4brkfst wrote: post #99
mykowebhn wrote: post #95

Does Kafka, the writer[1], come to mind for anyone? [1] I dislike that I have to specify. I wish there were still only one common reference for this name.

So why not elaborate as "Franz Kafka" when you mean the author? It can only clarify and it just takes 6 more characters. People who know both won't be bothered, and people who know neither will have a better time looking up the context.

GP would just have put the footnote on "Franz" rather than on "the writer" then (and may have had to look up Kafka's first name). I don’t think 6 vs. 12 characters makes that much of a difference.

Re: Accountability Sinks

#143

Post by hliyan »

scotty79 wrote: post #14

Another major accountability sink is employment. Employee is shielded from financial responsibility for the damage he incurs while working. While he may be punished for disobeying orders or acting criminally, he's not financially responsible for the fallout (especially if he was only doing the things he was ordered to do and/or reasonable things). Doing a job is inherently risky behavior. If you are doing it in a con…

I would say that corporate personhood is a better example. It seems very natural to us, but I'm not sure if it's an idea other intelligent species would also independently arrive at.

Re: Accountability Sinks

#144

Post by scotty79 »

hliyan wrote: post #143
scotty79 wrote: post #14

Another major accountability sink is employment. Employee is shielded from financial responsibility for the damage he incurs while working. While he may be punished for disobeying orders or acting criminally, he's not financially responsible for the fallout (especially if he was only doing the things he was ordered to do and/or reasonable things). Doing a job is inherently risky behavior. If you are doing it in a con…

I would say that corporate personhood is a better example. It seems very natural to us, but I'm not sure if it's an idea other intelligent species would also independently arrive at.

I don't see it natural at all. I think it's quite insane concept. A corporation is obviously not a person and even if you pretend it to be a person why only good things come from it for a corporation? Why isn't it sentenced to death and executed when it kills 11 people?

Why corporations are allowed to own other corporations? Isn't it a slavery?

Re: Accountability Sinks

#145

Post by artimaeis »

hliyan wrote: post #141
op00to wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of the importance of driving in the US (right or wrong), drivers licenses are used as the primary identification document. It looks like there’s a similar use of the DL in the UK for buying tobacco. In the US, you need to prove both residency and identity. To prove your identity in the US, many people don’t have passports, so they bring a tranche of documents to the DMV office. To prove residency, we typicall…

If a person does not (and does not want to) drive, how do they identify themselves? Where I live, everyone gets a government issue ID card, and the ID number is the citizen's primary key. Our government is still largely paper-driven, but there's little you can't get done if you show up in person with your national ID.

Every state in the US has some form of non-driver ID. They call them different things - but they're still usually administered by the state's DMV, since that's the office that is equipped to deal with identification procedures anyways.

In the US we don't have a standard form of national ID.

Re: Accountability Sinks

#146

Post by jetrink »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #124
xg15 wrote: post #49

One example that's missing from the list is the TV series 24. A recurring plot point was that, yes, of course torture is bad and it's against the rules and we don't do it, etc etc, but it just so happens that here is such an exceptional, unprecedented, deeply urgent emergency situation where we need to have the information now or horrible things will happen, we need the hero who breaks the rules and goes on torturing…

I watched a season of Chicago PD , and noticed that they had a convenient "plot accelerator." Whenever they got to a point, where the detectives and CSI would be painstakingly going through the evidence, sifting out clues, they'd throw the suspect into "the cage," and beat a confession out of them.

It is an accurate depiction of how Chicago police operated, unfortunately. In fact, one Chicago detective who tortured suspects went on to work as an interrogator at Guantanamo Bay[2]. It's terrible that the series would glamorize that behavior.

1. https://chicagoreader.com/news/the-police-torture-scandals-a...

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Zuley

Re: Accountability Sinks

#147

Post by freehorse »

Pamar wrote: post #61
oleggromov wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's generally to protect revenue because buying A-B-C instead of B-C can be cheaper, and hoards of people used to just segments to save money. So they just assume everyone is trying to cheat them. Isn't it ridiculous in the first place that flying A-B-C is less expensive than B-C? These are the pricing games airlines deliberately play to make more money out of nothing.

This is just an oversimplification though. If you had any experience about travel industry (or logistics) you would understand things much better. Here is an example for you (from logistics): Sending a truck from Berlin to - say - Györ may cost 3 times less than sending the same truck from Györ to Berlin - even on the same exact date. Is this because shipping companies try to make money out of nothing, for you?

And what is the actual explanation that actually makes sense (apart from profit increase)?

I have booked flights A->B->C and got down at B because that was cheaper than booking A->B only. Not sure where this all makes sense at all.

Re: Accountability Sinks

#148

Post by [deleted] »

godelski wrote: post #83
xg15 wrote: post #49

One example that's missing from the list is the TV series 24. A recurring plot point was that, yes, of course torture is bad and it's against the rules and we don't do it, etc etc, but it just so happens that here is such an exceptional, unprecedented, deeply urgent emergency situation where we need to have the information now or horrible things will happen, we need the hero who breaks the rules and goes on torturing…

Convictions aren't convictions if you abandon them when it's hard. It's just cosplay

[deleted]

Re: Accountability Sinks

#149

Post by mannykannot »

sails wrote: post #91
cheschire wrote: post #36

I always remind myself when I have to go to the DMV[0] that I should plan on leaving with nothing more than another action or set of actions to take. I never enter the DMV expecting to complete a process, and the workers behind the counter always have this visible, visceral response when I DONT lose my fucking mind at their response to something. When I continue to be pleasant and understanding it’s like they suddenl…

Interesting distinction is deliberate vs unintentional accountability sinks. DMV sounds more like incompetence than design. Compare with airline where the system is “better” when you have no recourse.

Starting in four days, you will need, to board a commercial flight in the US or enter a federal government facility, either a passport, an 'enhanced' or 'real ID' driver's license, or one of a small class of alternatives. This has increased the burden on state DMVs, and any resulting deepening of the accountability sink is at least partly due to not doing anything to mitigate a predictable situation.

Re: Accountability Sinks

#150

Post by dsego »

cheschire wrote: post #36

I always remind myself when I have to go to the DMV[0] that I should plan on leaving with nothing more than another action or set of actions to take. I never enter the DMV expecting to complete a process, and the workers behind the counter always have this visible, visceral response when I DONT lose my fucking mind at their response to something. When I continue to be pleasant and understanding it’s like they suddenl…

Kafkaesque bureaucracy, it's common to a lot of government institutions, they send you from one window to the next, there is always paperwork missing or something needs to be stamped. It seems like the whole process is not to serve the people but just there to perpetuate itself.
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