Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes • Hacker News Board

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#221

Post by kerkeslager » Sat, May 03, 2025, 1:57 AM UTC

monkaiju wrote: post #134

echelon wrote: post #127

Autonomous trucks will be fantastic. Truckers are compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines. It creates a lot of danger on the highway. It feels like autonomous vehicles could become one of America's superpowers. We have so many miles of road and interstate highway. Autonomous vehicles could double down on that strength and flip the underinvestment in passenger rail on its head, making it…

So instead of improve their conditions we just fire them? Sure that won't have any negative repercussions... That's even assuming this is actually remotely profitable compared to just using humans. Like a lot of this sort of automation it probably isn't, and it's true purpose is to be used as a threat against workers so they'll be even more "compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines"

To me, a vision of the future in which people do jobs robots could do, just to create jobs, is a dystopia. The future I want to see is one in which humans live lives of play and leisure while robots do all the labor, and the results of the robots doing labor are distributed equitably.

The problem is, there's no historical precedent for this, and we're still letting people who do almost no labor amass most of the results of other people's labor. If we follow the current trajectory, we'll have a society controlled by a few people who own the robots, and everybody else fighting over their table scraps.

The solution to this isn't rejecting automation to create artificial jobs: that's just fighting over table scraps by a different name. The solution is to stop rewarding generational wealth with more wealth, and distribute resources more equitably.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#222

Post by nradov » Sat, May 03, 2025, 1:59 AM UTC

nicoburns wrote: post #84

krapp wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me know where you can find a competent government not currently trying to burn down its own consumer-based economy with tariffs and xenophobia and which doesn't consider trains a communist plot. And whether they take American passports.

Trains are as popular as ever almost everywhere in Europe.

Trains move as much freight as ever in the USA.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#223

Post by kerkeslager » Sat, May 03, 2025, 2:01 AM UTC

materielle wrote: post #189

monkaiju wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of improve their conditions we just fire them? Sure that won't have any negative repercussions... That's even assuming this is actually remotely profitable compared to just using humans. Like a lot of this sort of automation it probably isn't, and it's true purpose is to be used as a threat against workers so they'll be even more "compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines"

Why stop there? We should bring back elevator operators. And station a traffic guard on every corner instead of traffic lights. Let’s bring back tool booth operators. And let’s delete Google calendar and bring back secretaries while we’re at it.

This sort of response misses the point. If the goal is to have jobs for everyone, then yes, bringing back all those things is actually the right move, and you're not going to convince the person who favors job creation otherwise. You seem to be under the impression that those jobs went away for a good reason, but you haven't bothered to articulate what that reason was.

I think the better point is that having jobs for everyone isn't the goal. Equitably distributing the results of our society's labor so everyone's needs are met is. If people are able to live in a house and put food on their table, they'll be less concerned with whether they have a job or not.

But that requires that you care enough about other people to not let people hoard unlimited resources, so I suspect most of HN will have some objections, and you'll never actually address what monkaiju is concerned about.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#224

Post by cco » Sat, May 03, 2025, 2:06 AM UTC

recursivedoubts wrote: post #56

EvanAnderson wrote: post #32

There's also a trial of "platooning" of driverless trucks on I-70 in Ohio and Indiana: https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardbishop1/2025/04/24/ease-... A "drivered" lead truck is leading one or more driverless trucks in this case. I drive the stretch of highway these trucks are on fairly regularly. I don't know that I've seen a group of them yet but I'm keeping my eye out. I'm probably just showing my age, but I like…

next level would be to hook these "platoons" together physically and then centralize the propulsion in a super efficient package. And then we could move them off the highways and onto specialized "tracks" that guarantee they don't deviate from the planned routes. speculative, alien technology, admittedly, but some day our scientists will figure it out i bet!

Jokes aside, Germany trialed a hybrid catenary truck system which was really neat.

Diesel to get you from the warehouse to the highway, extend your pantograph and boom, you're electric in the right lane (outside lane) all the way to your exit.

Never looked into how it penciled out but I always thought that was a great idea. Seems like there is a path to add in driverless aspects to the system as well given you have contact with a wire the whole time.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#225

Post by notepad0x90 » Sat, May 03, 2025, 2:07 AM UTC

I'm assuming these are electric? Because even with a driver, longhaul electric trucks are not practical at scale right now, the energy infrastructure and capacity to support them is nowhere near there.

My point being (and please correct me), this is practical but 15-20 years away from widespread adaption, best case.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#226

Post by culi » Sat, May 03, 2025, 2:09 AM UTC

If anyone else is just curious about the companies involved:

> autonomous trucking firm Aurora announced it launched commercial service in Texas under its first customers, Uber Freight and Hirschbach Motor Lines

https://aurora.tech/

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#227

Post by hoherd » Sat, May 03, 2025, 2:10 AM UTC

I expected to find some of the tech that snow plows use on Donner Pass for lane keeping, RRDPS, but couldn't find any info indicating that they are using highway embedded sensors to aid the autonomous trucks.

https://dot.ca.gov/-/media/dot-media/programs/research-innov...

> The RRPDS must maintain an estimate of the vehicle state (i.e., position, velocity, heading, and heading rate) relative to the roadway with position accurate to a few centimeters.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#228

Post by zer00eyz » Sat, May 03, 2025, 2:18 AM UTC

recursivedoubts wrote: post #56

EvanAnderson wrote: post #32

There's also a trial of "platooning" of driverless trucks on I-70 in Ohio and Indiana: https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardbishop1/2025/04/24/ease-... A "drivered" lead truck is leading one or more driverless trucks in this case. I drive the stretch of highway these trucks are on fairly regularly. I don't know that I've seen a group of them yet but I'm keeping my eye out. I'm probably just showing my age, but I like…

next level would be to hook these "platoons" together physically and then centralize the propulsion in a super efficient package. And then we could move them off the highways and onto specialized "tracks" that guarantee they don't deviate from the planned routes. speculative, alien technology, admittedly, but some day our scientists will figure it out i bet!

> next level would be to hook these "platoons" together physically and then centralize the propulsion in a super efficient package.

You don't need the tracks, and its called a 'road train'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_train

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#229

Post by bmillare » Sat, May 03, 2025, 2:18 AM UTC

notepad0x90 wrote: post #225

I'm assuming these are electric? Because even with a driver, longhaul electric trucks are not practical at scale right now, the energy infrastructure and capacity to support them is nowhere near there. My point being (and please correct me), this is practical but 15-20 years away from widespread adaption, best case.

If you take a look at the pictures, it appears those are Peterbilt trucks (non-electric). You can see it more clearly on their own website.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#230

Post by silisili » Sat, May 03, 2025, 2:18 AM UTC

bryanlarsen wrote: post #14

Analemma_ wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doubtful. The trucking industry has been screaming for years that they can’t find enough people, almost every 18-wheeler I see on the highway has a “we’re hiring” ad on it, and so on. This is automation coming in to replace humans who are willfully exiting.

Walmart and similar employers have no trouble finding drivers. Decent pay, benefits and schedules makes it easy.

UPS, too. I knew a couple OTRs who made 150k 2 decades ago. Not sure if they've kept up with inflation, but it was great money at the time.

Of course, they had people fighting for those jobs, and from what I heard, about the only way to get one was to know somebody on the inside.

Up your pay, give them benefits, and the people will come. This isn't hard to figure out.