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Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

cnn.com

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Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#171

Post by bdcravens »

monkaiju wrote: post #134
echelon wrote: post #127

Autonomous trucks will be fantastic. Truckers are compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines. It creates a lot of danger on the highway. It feels like autonomous vehicles could become one of America's superpowers. We have so many miles of road and interstate highway. Autonomous vehicles could double down on that strength and flip the underinvestment in passenger rail on its head, making it…

So instead of improve their conditions we just fire them? Sure that won't have any negative repercussions... That's even assuming this is actually remotely profitable compared to just using humans. Like a lot of this sort of automation it probably isn't, and it's true purpose is to be used as a threat against workers so they'll be even more "compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines"

Software and automation has a long history of putting people out of work. Many of the truckers are delivering loads for large companies who put mom and pop stores out of business. It's the circle of life.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#172

Post by andrepd »

recursivedoubts wrote: post #56
EvanAnderson wrote: post #32

There's also a trial of "platooning" of driverless trucks on I-70 in Ohio and Indiana: https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardbishop1/2025/04/24/ease-... A "drivered" lead truck is leading one or more driverless trucks in this case. I drive the stretch of highway these trucks are on fairly regularly. I don't know that I've seen a group of them yet but I'm keeping my eye out. I'm probably just showing my age, but I like…

next level would be to hook these "platoons" together physically and then centralize the propulsion in a super efficient package. And then we could move them off the highways and onto specialized "tracks" that guarantee they don't deviate from the planned routes. speculative, alien technology, admittedly, but some day our scientists will figure it out i bet!

It's fascinating the frequency with which techbros invent "trains but worse".

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#173

Post by LorenPechtel »

pedalpete wrote: post #126
A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote: post #125

I am of two minds about all this. On the one hand, I see the clear, long-term potential given that half the people I see while driving are somehow on their phone. From that perspective, it can't come soon enough. Some people need to be off the road. On the other, I am annoyed that we are effectively beta testing those on public roads with public paying the price.

Is it fair to say they are "beta testing" on public roads with the public paying the price after they've done four years with a supervised driver in the cab?

We have two examples to look at:

Waymo, which appears to be doing an excellent job of handling it. Their robotaxis consistently seem to have a better track record than humans (although it's possible the limits put on them taint the comparison.)

Cruise, which had a whole bunch of problems with edge cases and last I knew wasn't allowed to operate anymore.

I'd share the road with a Waymo truck (not that their system can do that yet), I wouldn't want to share it with a Cruise truck.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#174

Post by Spooky23 »

brookst wrote: post #138
monkaiju wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of improve their conditions we just fire them? Sure that won't have any negative repercussions... That's even assuming this is actually remotely profitable compared to just using humans. Like a lot of this sort of automation it probably isn't, and it's true purpose is to be used as a threat against workers so they'll be even more "compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines"

I don’t get it. Say I’m building a company to ship self-driving trucks. I need hundreds of millions, maybe billions in capital. I need to line up purchasers. My fixed costs are huge and marginal lower, so I need volume. How, exactly, am I thinking about “threatening” existing drivers so they work longer hours and break more laws?

If you’re not a union shop, it’s easy. Divide and conquer. Like most employees, truckers in general are stupid and greedy. They are in one of the easiest to organize jobs, but get brainwashed by the firehose of right wing radio.

First step is to isolate the smart ones, which are the people with hazmat endorsements. Treat them well and praise effusively to build resentment. Then take the routes that are cost effective for robots, and offer premium pay and bonuses to the people, but with goals that can’t be met without cutting corners. Encourage reporting of rule violators.

Your goal is to create a toxic and miserable environment that pays just enough. Make them kill each other for a dwindling number of slots. You keep the people agitated and fighting each other, and they won’t notice their toys getting taken away.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#176

Post by throwaway48476 »

potato3732842 wrote: post #169
echelon wrote: post #127

Autonomous trucks will be fantastic. Truckers are compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines. It creates a lot of danger on the highway. It feels like autonomous vehicles could become one of America's superpowers. We have so many miles of road and interstate highway. Autonomous vehicles could double down on that strength and flip the underinvestment in passenger rail on its head, making it…

>Truckers are compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines. This is statement is somewhere between ignorant and an outright lie. There's a bunch of rules governing how many hours truckers can work. And those regulations are mostly followed. And when they're not it's typically some local outfit delivering fuel or groceries, not the long haul mega fleets https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/ho…

That's the problem. The human alertness cycle can't be forced to align with the ELT logged time schedule. Truckers used to drive longer when they felt awake and choose their own rest times as long as it averaged out.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#177

Post by vlan0 »

callc wrote: post #153
pedalpete wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it fair to say they are "beta testing" on public roads with the public paying the price after they've done four years with a supervised driver in the cab?

Definitely. Since human lives are at stake, it is fair to have an extremely high bar for safety.

It's an interesting bar to set. And it shows how we're willing to bend that safety bar to allow seniors to drive on the roads despite their clear cognitive disadvantage.

Let's look at some raw data. Mind you, we have 100x more data for the human drivers below. ie, billions of miles vs millions for automated drivers.

Pop examined Fatal-crash rate All Level‑4 automated‑driving tests in the U.S. 1.5–1.7 per 100 M mi Drivers 70‑74 yr 1.7 per 100 M mi Drivers 75‑79 yr 2.1 per 100 M mi Drivers 80‑84 yr 4.3 per 100 M mi Drivers ≥ 85 yr 7.6 per 100 M mi

So statistically, you are much more likely to be killed by a senior citizen. So to make a consistent argument using data around safety, we should maybe be revoking the licenses of older folks?

edit: Jesus, 19% of all US fatal crashes in 2023 invloved seniors. While they make up 15% of the driver population.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#178

Post by Spooky23 »

dangus wrote: post #140
monkaiju wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of improve their conditions we just fire them? Sure that won't have any negative repercussions... That's even assuming this is actually remotely profitable compared to just using humans. Like a lot of this sort of automation it probably isn't, and it's true purpose is to be used as a threat against workers so they'll be even more "compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines"

Isn’t it true that truck drivers are the most common profession in basically every state? I think it’s “funny” how corporate leaders in basically every industry are enthusiastically barreling toward a world in which they have no employed customers to buy their products created by their automated robot workforce. Nobody in politics is coming close to addressing the societal problems that are incoming in the near futur…

It’s not corporate leaders. It’s owners. We’re moving to a feudal environment. The billionaires are pulling sovereign capital from the Saudis. They need to keep their treasure, that’s the priority.

Politics isn’t pretending to address anything. We’re breaking the system to extract as much rent from the populace as possible. Caesar type stuff. Destroying the income tax means you’ll pay taxes based on consumption. We’ll be poorer. The overlords will be great.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#179

Post by walleeee »

porphyra wrote: post #107
ok_dad wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people agree on that point, but what are truckers going to do after they lose jobs to the robots? In the USA, there is never any planning for that, they just say "oh well" and in a generation those folks die out, having lived a shitty, destitute life with no chance of recovery.

The fact that there are too few younger truck drivers means that most young people have already found higher paying, better jobs than current truck driving jobs.

I don't think B necessarily follows from A, here.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#180

Post by sgregnt »

monkaiju wrote: post #134
echelon wrote: post #127

Autonomous trucks will be fantastic. Truckers are compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines. It creates a lot of danger on the highway. It feels like autonomous vehicles could become one of America's superpowers. We have so many miles of road and interstate highway. Autonomous vehicles could double down on that strength and flip the underinvestment in passenger rail on its head, making it…

So instead of improve their conditions we just fire them? Sure that won't have any negative repercussions... That's even assuming this is actually remotely profitable compared to just using humans. Like a lot of this sort of automation it probably isn't, and it's true purpose is to be used as a threat against workers so they'll be even more "compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines"

What kind of comment is that? You can open your own company and pay as much as you want and create whatever condition you want for the workers.
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